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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| I know of two people who were caught teaching privates in Korea and expelled within 24 hrs from the country. Immigration officials had posed as prospective students and caught the teachers. |
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markosonlines
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Ise
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Stay put in Korea. I have saved like crazy here in Japan, nearly half of my after rent pay, but I know I could save more in Korea and still get out for drinks and meals more than I'm currently doing. Just remember a pint of beer at a J-bar costs about the same as those 3L samchon cc monster jugs in Korea. God I miss those, and K-food's better too. For what I'm paying the convenience store I used to get dolsot bibimbap's and anything else delivered to my school with a half dozen side dishes. And tak kalbi is worth living in Korea by itself.
You say you can save 2 or 3 million there!! In a year? The last time I looked hagwon's are paying about Y2 million annually so either you're in something more lucrative, doing privates or planning to stay longer than a year.
Markos
God I miss samchon cc monster jugs. |
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saint_moi
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 11
Location: ROK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I find the discouragement to come to Japan highly strange. I sense an atmoshpere of paranoia, like someone is going to find out that the Japanese pie is delicious and might want a slice.
Anyhow, I will try find advice and opinion somehow that is more objective.
Thanks, umm, anyhoo.
The money is better in Japan, I know that. The stiffness and cold expat shoulder is not so nice. Rock on I say.... |
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saint_moi
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 11
Location: ROK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 7:57 am Post subject: |
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In fact, I'll reiterate. Seems most there are ex-Korean expats who are now in Jpn. Interesting how both pies have been tasted, the Japanese confectionery is being consumed yet the Korean version is being recommended.
Aaaa... metaphors, like a warm blanket of anonymity. |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:23 am Post subject: |
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well I tried working in Korea but didn`t care for it.
Hogwans suck.
I will take a Japanese boss over a Korean boss any day. |
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azarashi sushi
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 562
Location: Shinjuku
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Hello Saint Moi,
Japan is a great place to live and work! If you want to experience it you should come here.
However, you should read your original post ...
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| I'm a young lad still and I'm saving to go back to Uni so cash and saving as much as I can to acheive what I need to is high up on my priorities, what is the pay Really like there? In Korea due to my diligence I have a pretty tight schedule set up with super students and it's quite possible for me to save about 2,3mil Yen towards Uni tuition. Is this possible in Japan as I've heard it's Super expensive over there. |
The posters have answered you honestly... That is, if saving money is your main priority, you should stay in Korea because you will be able to save MUCH more. You will be able to save money in Japan but nowhere near that amount... unless you do NOTHING and live off rice and water every day.
However, you'll probably have a much better working/living experience in Japan than in Korea.
A.S. |
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markosonlines
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Ise
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Yeah dude, if you really wanna come and earn less you can have my job from April. I'm moving to, no not Korea, but Chiba-ken, near Tokyo. And nobody is saying that Korea is better, just cheaper (esp. for beer) and easier to save cash. And K-food is definitely better INHO but that's another thread. That doesn't mean I think Korea is better than Japan though. You're the one asking the questions  .
Markos |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Don't listen to them! Japan's great. You can save a million yen a week AND live in style. I've almost finished paying off my fifth Hawaiian condo. Don't stay in Korea another second.
I wanted to share this in my earlier posts but something held me back. Can't think what  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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I find the discouragement to come to Japan highly strange. I sense an atmoshpere of paranoia, like someone is going to find out that the Japanese pie is delicious and might want a slice.
Anyhow, I will try find advice and opinion somehow that is more objective. |
I dare you to find objective advice on any subject anywhere. You asked for information, and we gave it to you.
Some people lived in Korea and Japan, and they gave you their opinions. Take them or leave them, but don't complain about them.
You weren't all that clear in your original message, so it was hard to give you accurate advice. You said you were going back to "uni", so I figured you were going back to finish a degree, not start a new one. This is a Japan forum, and you shouldn't figure that everyone here knows the requirements for working in Korea ( I certainly don't), so don't complain that your statement was "obvious".
Negative responses? Paranoia? We have stated the salary you can expect. We have told you the setup costs will be huge. Some of us have explained how much you can expect to save, but that is a rather variable figure that depends a lot on the individual, so you shouldn't expect an exact dollar or yen amount.
Here is the most objective advice you can get.
Basic jobs teaching English in Japan will pay you 250,000-280,000 yen/month. There is little opportunity for promotions or pay raises or for negotiating higher salaries.
Your degree status is not clear, but I will guess it is not at the master's or PhD level, so that disqualifies you from higher paid jobs at universities.
You might get in at high schools, elementary schools, or international schools, and they often pay more than the basic eikaiwa.
If you just show up in Japan without a job, you will have to set yourself up with housing. Very few apartments rent to foreigners without employment to serve as a guarantor, so you will likely have to live in a guest house, and those often require 25,000 yen as a deposit, and the monthly rent is about 50,0000-80,000 yen. Groceries will run you 30,000 yen/month. Local transportation will run you 10,000-15,000 yen/month to travel around the city for job interviews. That's a total of 115,000 to 150,000 yen just to walk in the door and put a roof over your head and eat. It obviously does not include getting a phone so employers can contact you (another setup cost of 10,000 yen, plus 7000 per month for a cell phone, or setup cost of 30,000-70,000 yen, plus 5000 yen per month for a home phone). Nor does it include any miscellaneous charges such as laundry, postage, photocopies, newpapers, Internet cafes or haircuts (most of which I assume will be needed in some fashion in order to job hunt). It does not include the airfare to get over here, either, and you shouldn't expect anyone in Japan to pay for that, because darned few will.
So, with a place to live, food in your stomach, a train pass, and a phone, you will have to spend about 132,000 to 225,000 yen for the first month. Second month will not have the phone setup or guest house deposit fees, but it still entails spending about 97,000 to 115,000 yen per month for the very basics.
People come here and spend their entire 90-day tourist visa looking for work in vain. Reasons? Poor resume appearance. Bad interviewing skills. Improper experience/qualifications. Bad timing. You name it. So, I wouldn't count on finding work within 2 weeks, even though it can be done. Setup in Japan is expensive.
How do you find the work? Eikaiwas advertise quite widely. Look at this web site, as well as the following most popular ones.
www.gaijinpot.com
www.eltnews.com
www.ohayosensei.com
www.jobsinjapan.com
There are others for specific locations, and some require subscription fees.
High schools and the like sometimes advertise publicly (including on the above sites and in The Japan Times on Monday), but many are announced simply through contacts. Nobody is being paranoid here about hiding these jobs from you. It is a simple fact of the way Japan (and probably most countries) operates. You have to hustle to get the better jobs anywhere in life!
| Quote: |
| The money is better in Japan, I know that. The stiffness and cold expat shoulder is not so nice. |
If you think that we are stiff and cold here (online), you are in for a shock when you see us in person. I'll let you figure out what that means. For now, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. |
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cafebleu
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Saint moi - don`t be so defensive. It seems clear to me that those with experience of Korea were simply telling you what I have heard from any number of people who have worked in Korea -the lifestyle and in some cases, the quality of life is better in Korea. If you are looking for value for money, cheap entertainment, great food at low prices then Korea IS the better option. I have visited Korea although I have never lived there.
The fact is Japan`s 250,000 yen (if you can get that - increasingly salaries are being lowered), while superior to Korean salaries on paper, does not stretch that far. It can - if you are prepared to really budget and forego pleasures that are much cheaper in Korea such as eating out and entertainment. Transport is also much cheaper in Korea.
Japan`s transportation system is fantastic - I am referring to the bus, train, underground network. However, there are only token discount deals for everyday travel - eg you can get extra yen on cards that can be used on buses, trains and underground, depending on the value of the card but when you calculate just how much you spent on transporation fares in a week, those trivial discount amounts mean virtually nothing in savings.
There are imported English and American magazines here that cost as much as 3 times the price in their respective countries. Yes, such simple keep in touch items are a luxury here. Convenience store food is not bad here, and certainly any number of fast foods you can buy in them are far superior to soggy and fatty traditional Brit take away.
However, they are not so cheap. Neither are supermarket/dept store foods and the sizes are really stingy compared to western sizes. Value for money is not a concept that really has taken hold in Japan. Much packaging and air, small bite size pieces that costs way too much for what you get - these are the norm. You save so much money on food in Korea compared to Japan.
As for housing prices - Korea is far, far greener. Legalised extortion called shikikin - key money - robs you of huge amounts of money before you`ve even set foot in your rental house/apartment. In the UK it`s a rental deposit and there are laws to prevent owners fleecing renters. There`s no such law in effect here - this is Japan remember. Fair play is not a Japanese concept, especially given that vested interests such as property owners are untouchable regarding their practices.
I know somebody who has lived in Japan for 9 years and moved 5 times. He has paid over 13,000 US dollars just in key money and extra payments to rental agents in that time. He didn`t get any of it back although he caused no property damage. That is the side of Japan that outsiders don`t hear about. It`s called institutionalised corruption and it`s another example of why it is maybe smarter money-wise to stay in Korea.
The grass is not so green here pay-wise. The days of the Bubble Economy are long gone and coming to Japan to buy a house back home is one of the great Japan myths. Pay rates are at their lowest in Japan and it`s not unusual to hear of part time jobs (which any number of foreigners are doing as opposed to having just one full time job) that offer an hourly rate of 1,500 to 2,000 yen.
If you are a working holiday visa person that is fine, but experienced people with teaching qualifications from their homeland such as myself don`t see why we should be lumped with inexperienced people and work for that rate. You don`t have to work for that rate but more and more language schools are offering part time work with these low rates. Some jobs here do not pay your travel fare.
Even if you get that single 250,000 yen per month job, if you break down your teaching hours and all your preparation time and other task hours, you will see that you are not really getting great pay. You CAN save money in Japan but you will probably find like many of us that to save a genuinely big amount of money equates to not having a life or having to watch your purse or wallet like a hawk. |
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homersimpson
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:03 am Post subject: |
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The following is hypothetical:
Monthly salary after taxes and insurance: 235,000
Rent: 45,000
Electricity: 3,200
SkyPerfectv: 12,000
Keitai: 3,600
Transportation expenses: 0 (your employer should reimburse you for any commuting costs incurred)
Food/Misc.: 71,200 (approx. 2,300 a day)
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Potential monthly savings: 100,000
If you save about 95,800 a month you
can achieve $10,000 per year while living in Japan. Obviously above figures vary upon one's location in Japan, if one chooses to cook, has high winter utility bills, etc. |
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cafebleu
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Homer - I am going to post an alternative price list showing what I was actually on re salary and what I actually paid in expenses 2 years ago. It`s interesting to compare our lists although I know you were giving a hypothetical budget on which one could save decent money in Japan.
Salary after tax - 220,000 yen
Monthly costs
Health Insurance - 18,000 yen
Citizen`s tax - 5,500 yen
Rent - 50,000
Electricity - summer (using electric fans etc) 6,000
winter (using electric heater) 9,000
spring and autumn 3,500
Water - 3,000 yen
Keitai - 3,500 yen
Home telephone - 3,500 yen
NHK fee - 1,395 yen
Neighbourhood kumiai fee - 700 yen
Transportation for personal use, not work - 12,000 yen
Food/misc - 60,000
This adds up to 172,095 yen in expenditure each month for myself. I hope my figures are not wrong. It shows that yes, I was saving, but it is not as much as 100,000 yen. Most foreigners will have to use transportation in their private life unless they like hanging out in their place by themselves. That wears thin.
So yes - you can save money without watching your purse or wallet like a hawk as I said in my first post. However, there are always unexpected expenses or things such as a trip back home in which case you can add on anything from 120,000 yen up in extra costs to your budget. |
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cafebleu
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, forgot to add internet connection which was about 4,000 yen per month thus the total is 176,095 yen. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Another difference between the 2 countries which has only been slightly mentioned is travel. I couldn't believe how expensive train travel is here. One time I spent 13,000 yen to travel from Okayama to Kyoto one-way(1.5 hours on the shinkansen). In Korea you could go from Seoul to Pusan 4 times and the distance is so much further. Most Japanese people (and foreigners) stay in their own city because of the high cost of travel. It's cheaper for me to go to Thailand for a holiday (via Seoul) than Japan. |
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saint_moi
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 11
Location: ROK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Then allow me this...
why are you there?
Plenty of you were in Korea and moved onto Japan. Why ?
Makes me think. And, know this, I am grateful for all the info. you've supplied. Much obliged.
J---------- |
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