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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
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| I've never heard anybody suggest Coptic Christians were different from other Egyptians |
Really? I thought such a 'belief' was quite common among Copts. I once met a young Coptic man from Cairo who swore to me that he was "not an Arab, he was an Egyptian" (I should add that Muslim Egyptians sometimes also make the same claim). He sincerely beleived that he - but not Muslim Egyptians - was a direct descendant of the Pharonic inhabitants of Egypt. This man also told me that "Coptic", not Arabic, was his first language, which must surely have been a lie. |
After years of living in Egypt, I can confirm that this is a VERY common, if not universal, belief of the Copts. As with the Lebanese Christians it has most likely developed due to their minority status in a Muslim country (though the Christians in Lebanon were granted political power out of proportion to their numbers by the French when the illogical national boundaries were enforced on the region after the fall of the Turkish Empire.)
The Coptic language is in the same position now as happened with Latin in the rest of Christendom... you pretty much only hear it on Sunday. There may be some families trying to keep it alive by using it at home, but I suspect that it is more likely that he was bi-lingual from birth.
VS |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| To "ghost", Cleopatra wrote: |
| Could you provide some evidence of this intriguing claim? Perhaps a photo of a Lebanese bearing the 'physical characteristics' of the "Phoenicians" side by side with a common and garden Arab? And what are these 'other variables" you speak of? A "Phoenician" language, perhaps? |
Cleo, I think you'll be waiting a long time for a relevant response to your questions. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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There may be some families trying to keep it alive by using it at home, but I suspect that it is more likely that he was bi-lingual from birth.
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I think you're being a bit generous, VS. According to Wikipedia, Coptic is a near-extinct language which has only been used for liturgical purposes since the 17th century. I would say the chances of this guy speaking Coptic at home are similar to the chances of a Catholic speaking Latin at home: ie close to zero.
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| though the Christians in Lebanon were granted political power out of proportion to their numbers by the French when the illogical national boundaries were enforced on the region after the fall of the Turkish Empire.) |
I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'illogical'. If you mean that modern boundaries do not reflect the history and sociology of the region, then you would of course be correct. However, from the point of view of the French, having a dependent Maronite enclave in the Levant was very logical. Of course, higher birthrates among the various Muslim sects kind of spoiled things.
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| Cleo, I think you'll be waiting a long time for a relevant response to your questions. |
Yup - it seems that ghost has (no doubt temporarily) left the building. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Cleopatra wrote: |
| I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'illogical'. If you mean that modern boundaries do not reflect the history and sociology of the region, then you would of course be correct. However, from the point of view of the French, having a dependent Maronite enclave in the Levant was very logical. |
Silly old me was thinking in terms of the logic of the actual residents of those areas. Fat chance of that... 
VS
(hey maybe the Egyptian fellow's father was a Coptic priest  but yeah... being generous again... I'll try to fight that urge next time.) |
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MrScaramanga
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 221
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Stephen Jones wrote:
(MOD edit - offending comment removed)
MrS |
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smedini
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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For what it's worth, my husband is from the maghreb and he is of the belief - and has been for some time - that people from his neck of the woods are often looked down upon in the Gulf. Perhaps not entirely true, or even true at all, but that's the perception he had when I met him, many moons ago, and one he still tends to think of as true.
~smedini |
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