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Tasmanian Devil
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 39
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 Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Voldermort wrote: |
| Mister Al wrote: |
| TD, so you do know how to get a Z visa.......and you know employers that would be willing to help you out. Why are you bothering to ask in the first place? Knobhead. I gave some advice in your other post about apartments but I am going to delete it now. |
Don't let him get under your skin. We will have the last laugh when in a few months he will be crying out for help because those people he paid to help him out screwed him over.
TD, how do you expect to land a 25,000RMB a month position in an international school when you don't even meet the basic requirments to work for EF? |
Thank you, Mister Al, FYI I just finished 8 years at an international school in Saudi. I probably have more bits of paper than you have had hot dinners. |
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Tasmanian Devil
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Voldermort wrote: |
| Tasmanian Devil wrote: |
| I don't think teaching is 'a game'. And I'm not new to this 'game', just new to China. Does that make a difference? |
Teaching ESL in China certainly is a game. In most schools we are not regarded as teachers but as dancing monkeys. |
FYI, Mister Al, if you are working at an international school � with kids who are the sons and daughters of high-powered executives of international companies that purchase debentures and pay high educational allowances � teaching ESL in China, or anywhere else, is certainly NOT a game; though of course I doubt whether you have any experience of it. |
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Mister Al
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 840
Location: In there
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| FYI, Mister Al, if you are working at an international school � with kids who are the sons and daughters of high-powered executives of international companies that purchase debentures and pay high educational allowances � teaching ESL in China, or anywhere else, is certainly NOT a game; though of course I doubt whether you have any experience of it. |
Er...........I think you'll find that it was another poster who mentioned the word 'game'.
Don't 'punish' the wrong kid.  |
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cj750nomad
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Beijing and
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| What I need to know now is whether it's possible to give oneself a Z visa. Can I issue one to myself if I am the managing director of a company that employs me as a consultant? That way I could scout around for a post and not be in any rush. I want to be able to look and roam around China while I'm looking for a decent post. |
Agencies in china may and I say may be able to issue u a f visa...but for an agency to issue a rp (what some refer to incorrectly as a Z), the applicant would have to already have worked in china and even then it is expensive and may not be totally legal..Zs are governed and are only issued through a request from a company that has the ability to hire foreigners either through a FEC or a Foreign Work Permit. I once was able to secure a Foreign work Permit on my own, but that was do to a connection in the local PD and I doubt, at this time, that is still possible.
One way that I know of, that has worked in the past for others, is the forming of a HK corp. and then an F visa based on that business. At one time there were virtual office companies that could set that up for u in HK, but really after the games its anyone's guess what can be a possibility now.
But is all of this really necessary, and my answer would be NO.
I would be simpler to just acquire a L or a F in HK through an agency, after checking with a few to ascertain the best length of time and cost, then cruze the mainland looking for that sweet job.
OR Better yet...
Try and do it the right way...find an international school, and I have also worked at a few, to issue u the z and then come over, covered by the protective measures they already have in place such as housing and insurance, pay (1/2 in foreign currency in some schools) and look around for the next gig. Many of the internationals in Beijing do not cater to the Fat Cat Embassy official but to the non-native mid-level managers and line workers who make up the better part of the Chinese work force.
In short, everyone here is talking through their hat, incl. me, as we cnnot tell u for certaini whata u can expecta. I can tell u this much, I have always tried to be independent and not have my visa (rp) tired to my employer and it almost got me thrown out last summer....now I am living at the foot of the cross, visa wise that is.. |
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YAMARI
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 247
Location: shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Tasmanian Devil wrote: |
Mister Al, sorry for being so silly and asking a work-related question about China on a China on-topic forum. Next time I'll ask elsewhere. Thanks for your help. Seems like China is full of some insecure people........? Maybe my head is in the clouds, but that's preferable to having it up my own backside, like yours seems to be.
Voldermort (Dutch for genocide?!?&*), you say that teaching in China is a game, well, speak for yourself. I'll be looking for work at an international school, and will command a minimum of 25,000 rmb a month. If that's a game then so be it! A well paid game.
And you *can* get a Z visa to allow you to hunt around for suitable work, you just need to know the right people.....
1.000 rmb to an employer will convince them to issue a Z; doesn't mean you actually have to work for them though, as long as it states on paper that you do then it is enough. |
1 rmb might get you a pack of skittles. 1000 still wont get you a fake work pemit. Why would you need a fake z visa if you have this awesome 25000 rmb job in an international school. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Tasmanian Devil
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Yamari, if you had bothered to read what I wrote (and what you even quoted!) you would have come across these words: "I'll be looking for work at an international school, and will command a minimum of 25,000 rmb a month." You obviously have problems reading so I'll type this slowly for you: Do you understand 'I'll be looking' and 'I will command'? It means I do not have such a post yet but given my experience and quals I will eventually land such a job at or around the salary I have cited, but maybe much higher, maybe even verging on 30,000 rmb. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: |
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 well, I guess with the extra 5,000 u can buy your self several z-visas
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Tasmanian Devil
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Yes, or, as another poster (CJ?) suggested, I can set up a 'virtual' company in Hong Kong, with a registered business address, business number, and everything - the full works - and then hire myself as a consultant and then award myself a business visa for China. There seems to be many companies offering such services (just do a simple Google search) and many of them seem to have just this scenario in mind.
Arioch (is 36 your IQ by any chance?), why are you so upset that someone may come to China under slightly different circumstances from yourself? Are you really so fed up with your lot/the hand you were dealt? Not everyone is prepared to commit themselves to some unknown employer and some unknown area and some unknown bunch of fellow staff on an unknown campus. Many of us want to be 'on the ground', actually in China, from where we can make job applications, be available for interviews, and get the 'lie of the land'. If it takes a few terms or even a few years then that is not a problem; I deserve a few years off after 8 years in Saudi. Don't worry, I shan't be asking you for a handout, I have plenty of my own savings.
God, you bunch are so square! You go on about anything being able to happen in China, and then you go on to say that everything must be done by the book! Nonsense! |
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cj750nomad
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Beijing and
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, or, as another poster (CJ?) suggested, I can set up a 'virtual' company in Hong Kong, |
What I said is that I do know some who have done it this way but am not sure as to the present situation.....at this point all I can say is good luck...while I would agree that not all has been done by the book, especially my book, I will say I think it is better to try and work within the guidelines of a established process...now hear this...I just gave you a piece of advice that I would never follow. |
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Tasmanian Devil
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for that, CJ, sorry if I in any way misread or misquoted you. But, you are right. A cursory Google search reveals many companies in HK which offer exactly the services you mentioned, so I suspect you know people who have done this in the past. I've been in contact with some of the companies already. Some seem to exist *just* to allow sensible people like myself a way around China's medieval visa regulations. This place is very reasonable:
http://www.corporateone.com.hk/E/fees/hkco.htm
A mere $2,688 US for the full service. And these people offer a good virtual office (with a very respectable address) at a fair price:
http://www.eoffice.net/hong_kong/hong_kong/virtual_office/telephone_mail_forwarding.html?gclid=CPWh08_NtZYCFREOewodBBmTMA
If anyone ever calls they will even be greeted by a human voice. There is a valid address to which all correspondence can be sent and there are even meeting facilities.
Then, I'll be able to, in effect, issue myself a business visa, in that I will be the MD of my company and I'll employ myself as a consultant who needs to travel to China on open-ended business and so who will require a business visa.
Why hasn't anyone else ever done this? Why settle for a employer-controlled visa when all you have to do is start your own company to get a visa? I don't want to be committed to a single employer and instead want to be free for a term or two (or a year or two) to find a decent post at a decent international school. But, in the meantime, I want to be able to do consultant work, freelance journalism, freelance editing, and short-term, lucrative supply teaching, etc.
When are people going to start waking up and start thinking outside of the box......? |
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cj750nomad
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Beijing and
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for that, CJ, sorry if I in any way misread or misquoted you. |
No sweat TS, I am not the ESL cops... so I just want to clarify to u that I had known others who had told me (and I b leave them) and not my personal experience. Like I said, I will always try and give the soundest advice but I rarely follow it myself finding the road less traveled more suited to my style. Also though, when the Sh8t hits the fan like it did this last summer ....I ran for the cover of a proper administrative procedure. I guess the trick is know when to hold them and when to fold them...words of loves from Kenny... |
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cj750nomad
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Beijing and
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Why hasn't anyone else ever done this? Why settle for a employer-controlled visa when all you have to do is start your own company to get a visa? |
Well to answer this one, I would have to say... to stay off the radar by using a shell employer or using the last employer with an overlapping RP.... to take on a new job and the fact that their is little in the way of reward for doing this way, unless... and this is a big unless... u r making enough coin to justify. It may be more in line with justification of expenses to find a agency to do their paperwork magic, and I am not sure u can with a Z/RP unless u have already had one. This is where the F comes into play. So maybe a plan of action would be to take a legit one in the beginning, and then convert to an agency later...I have actually worked on other sponsored RPs in the past and have no problem....now again with the disclaimer...not sure if it will still work. Some will tell you that if you leave an employer they can cancel your RP, and although I haven't seen it done..ever.. I have heard the PBS say it can be done in one Provence and in another it cannot be done without the passport in their hot baijiu'd hands. Truth is TD, you make your own reality in china and no one can guarantee you anything..nor for sure can they tell you it is not possible..I only write this for the sake of writing and not for recommendation. |
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theincredibleegg
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Tasmanian Devil wrote: |
Thanks for that, CJ, sorry if I in any way misread or misquoted you. But, you are right. A cursory Google search reveals many companies in HK which offer exactly the services you mentioned, so I suspect you know people who have done this in the past. I've been in contact with some of the companies already. Some seem to exist *just* to allow sensible people like myself a way around China's medieval visa regulations. This place is very reasonable:
http://www.corporateone.com.hk/E/fees/hkco.htm
A mere $2,688 US for the full service. And these people offer a good virtual office (with a very respectable address) at a fair price:
http://www.eoffice.net/hong_kong/hong_kong/virtual_office/telephone_mail_forwarding.html?gclid=CPWh08_NtZYCFREOewodBBmTMA
If anyone ever calls they will even be greeted by a human voice. There is a valid address to which all correspondence can be sent and there are even meeting facilities.
Then, I'll be able to, in effect, issue myself a business visa, in that I will be the MD of my company and I'll employ myself as a consultant who needs to travel to China on open-ended business and so who will require a business visa.
Why hasn't anyone else ever done this? Why settle for a employer-controlled visa when all you have to do is start your own company to get a visa? I don't want to be committed to a single employer and instead want to be free for a term or two (or a year or two) to find a decent post at a decent international school. But, in the meantime, I want to be able to do consultant work, freelance journalism, freelance editing, and short-term, lucrative supply teaching, etc.
When are people going to start waking up and start thinking outside of the box......? |
Modesty for christ sake.
I know to people who work for The Guardian in Beijing.
As far as i know, you have to be pretty qualified to work as journalist in China. Not to forget that you have to be curious about this country. That goes for freelancers aswell.
Anyway. Good luck with working for an American international school. I do however hope you display a more modest attitude to your students.
International schools in China are pretty hard to get into even if you have required certificates. So expect it to be tougher than you think.
Why didn't you just ask the international school in Arabia to transfer you to a school in China?
Anyway, atleast you have a couple of schools to choose from. I have one school in entire China. Heh. |
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Ahchoo
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 606
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| issue myself a business visa, |
You can't issue yourself a visa, the best you will be able to do is issue yourself an invitation letter to submit with your application for an F visa.
Up until fairly recently even that letter wasn't required, it was just a matter of using one of the visa/travel services in HK, paying the money and getting your visa.
It may have even reverted back to that situation now that the games are over.
Anyone applied for an F in HK recently? |
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