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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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 Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh you newbie green Dave's members . . . you crack me up being so wise and all. |
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eddy-cool
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 1008
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I never needed to have my FEC, and I do see the point my previous poster was trying to make when he said it was safer being kept with him.
You only need your FEC once to open a foreign-currency bank account, and your FAO usually accompanies you to the BOC on that occasion.
He has to return the FEC to the issuing authority after you leave your employer. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Here in Zhengzhou, the clerks that work in the Foreign Exchange part of the Bank of China are usually tha smartest, and actually speak some english.
Why do they ask for the paperwork each time? To make you get in fights with the FAo to get the school to actually give u ur tax receipts
Shanghai Pudong has had the best clerks, and the best english speakers, so far |
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cj750nomad
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Beijing and
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| To make you get in fights with the FAo to get the school to actually give u ur tax receipts |
If u can find out where the local tax collection office is, they will have records based on your passport number of taxes actually paid. Several years ago, I needed tax receipts and informed my future employer of that requirement before taking the job, but to no avail, they were not forthcoming, so I went to the local tax office twice causing a hailstorm of record check at my school, which as u can imagine was not welcome. I did get my tax receipts and the school had to start paying the proper amount. To be honest, I wouldn't go thought it again.
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He has to return the FEC to the issuing authority after you leave your employer. |
While this very well may be true in your experience, I have only returned the first one issue and in 7 years have maintain all the rest except for the last one which was used by my current employer to obtain a new FEC book. |
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cj750nomad
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Beijing and
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| You only need your FEC once to open a foreign-currency bank account, |
I have only needed a passport in the three cities I have worked in. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Passport, not FEC, is required. FEC can ocassionally be used for some things Like a hotel room, but don't count on it. The passport is the requirement for transferring funds, opening bank accounts, etc. Haven't used my FEC in years.
RP is becoming more and more important ... buying/renting good houses, worthwhile credit card seem to need a good RP |
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cj750nomad
Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 252
Location: Beijing and
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Bottom line is if possible don't give up the FEC. You may never need it... but when you do.. there is no replacement. |
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IanMWashburn
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 61
Location: As of February 2009 - Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: They often keep thew FEC because it is fake. |
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More often than not, the FECs obtained by the schools are fake.
This may be why they don't want the "evidence" floating around.
Only the SAFEA can legally print and issue FECs.
These real FECs will bear the red SAFEA chop on the first page, and it will say "State Administration of Foreign Expert Affairs, People's Republic of China" in English, under the official chop.
Very often, provinces or even munipalities simply print and issue their own FECs, which look identical to the SAFEA ones, unless you look very closely at them.
Technically, these provincial and municipal FECs are invalid. Nonetheless, the local PSB Entry and Exit offices seem to accept them as real, thereby giving you your Residence Permit (based on your FEC work permit).
But if you have any trouble with the employer, and go to the SAFEA for help, they will tell you your FEC is fake. Then, if you go and complain to the PSB, they will agree with you, but also they will cancel your RPF, because it is based on a fake FEC.
The schoola know that their FECs are fake. They don't want the evidence in your hands.
Check your FEC. Real or fake? If fake, then you are skating on thin ice. |
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danielb
Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| More often than not, the FECs obtained by the schools are fake. |
Pretty big claim, any evidence? |
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lf_aristotle69
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 546
Location: HangZhou, China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: |
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The only reason I can think for a school giving you a fake FEC is if you were working on a tourist/business visa because your school is not really licensed to emply foreigners.
The regulations stipulate that teachers should hold their FEC for the duration of their service. Hence the text inside the document "Signature of the bearer" and "Name of the bearer"...
It should be returned to the FAO at the end of your contract period. As some have suggested it is handy to keep a hold of them, but the school has a right to get it back. Maybe you could accidentally "lose" it a couple of weeks before the end of semester...
LFA |
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mikefriend
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 118
Location: Sleep walking around the world. But don't wake me up, you might kill me.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: |
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I have 2 fecs. The newest one and the one from an old school.
The old one was given to my by the psb at the police station. They took a picture and gave it to me then.
The newest was obtained by the school for me. Side by side they look identical.
And give them back? Not if I don't have to - and just because they ask doesn't mean I have to give it back, does it? |
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IanMWashburn
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 61
Location: As of February 2009 - Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Just check the first page of your FEC. |
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Big claim?
Maybe.
But just for fun, let's take a poll, and find out how many FECs have the red SAFEA chop (seal) on page one, as described above. |
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danielb
Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 490
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I�ve had two of them in the past but now have an Alien Work Permit. Mine were both real. So were the FECs of my former colleagues, one of whom is a prolific poster on this board. However, I wouldn�t feel qualified to say that more often than not the FECs issued in China are real. How could I know?
What I�m more interested in is how someone could come to the conclusion that more often than not they are fake, without having physically seen an enormous number (perhaps even the majority) of FECs. |
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North China Laowei
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Just check the first page of your FEC. |
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| IanMWashburn wrote: |
Big claim?
Maybe.
But just for fun, let's take a poll, and find out how many FECs have the red SAFEA chop (seal) on page one, as described above. |
Ian,
I would like to point out other items that are related.
1. Some schools and some entities in certain provinces come under provincial Foreign Expert Bureaus.
2. Some schools and some entities in certain provinces come under city or local Foreign Expert Bureaus. Guangzhou is one example where depending upon what kind of government school (meaning chartered by what level of government), then there is a respective Foreign Expert Bureau for that entity. (You can even check out the sites for the Guangzhou FEB and the Guangdong FEB, both in Guangzhou, just to add to the general confusion).
3. Some schools and some entities that are chartered by the national government in Beijing come directly under the national SAFEA to which you allude.
So thus, I do not want to be contrary, but a Foreign Expert Certificate issued by a Foreign Expert Bureau for a provincial institutional by a provincial FEB is quite valid; the same holds true for a city FEC, etc., etc.
There was one case on this board where a poster was convinced that his FEC was not real because it was issued by the city / regional FEB and not by SAFEA.
He tortured himself mentally over the issue, truly he did, until after much prodding by members of this board, he did some investigation and was able to confirm that indeed his institution, a well-known one, was city-chartered, etc. etc. and thus his FEC was quite legit. And SAFEA told him this, because he didn't believe Harbin where he was and where there are indeed three FEBs depending on chartering authority and he didn't believe the local Foreigner Tax Office (that told him the same thing).
This is China, as we all know, and there are rules, and local rules, and regional rules, and national rules, and with the exception of what happened during the Olympic g*mes period, usually things are not standard across the Board.
All the best. |
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IanMWashburn
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 61
Location: As of February 2009 - Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
1. Some schools and some entities in certain provinces come under provincial Foreign Expert Bureaus.
2. Some schools and some entities in certain provinces come under city or local Foreign Expert Bureaus. Guangzhou is one example where depending upon what kind of government school (meaning chartered by what level of government), then there is a respective Foreign Expert Bureau for that entity. (You can even check out the sites for the Guangzhou FEB and the Guangdong FEB, both in Guangzhou, just to add to the general confusion).
3. Some schools and some entities that are chartered by the national government in Beijing come directly under the national SAFEA to which you allude.
So thus, I do not want to be contrary, but a Foreign Expert Certificate issued by a Foreign Expert Bureau for a provincial institutional by a provincial FEB is quite valid; the same holds true for a city FEC, etc., etc. |
1. Apparently, there are no such entities as "provincial Foreign Expert Bureaus", as distinct from the SAFEA. The SAFEA has regional and provincial offices. But these are distinct from provincial and municipal "Foreign Affairs Offices", that issue the fake FEC. For example, in Qingdao, the SAFEA "Foreign Expert Office" is on the second floor of the Municipal Building. In the same builing, on the 20th floor, is the Qingdao "Foreign Affairs Office" that issue the fake FECs. Under Chinese law and regulation, only the SAFEA can legally print and issue FECs.
The QD SAFEA "Foreign Experts Office" looked at an FEC issued by the Qingdao Municipal "Foreign Affairs Office:, and said it was fake.
The key here is to distinguish between "Foreign EXPERTS Office" and "Foreign AFFAIRS Office". The former is SAFEA, the latter not.
2. Type and charter of school is irrelevant. The issue is whether or not the school has SAFEA approval to hire foreign teachers. If they do, they will most likely use genuine SAFEA contracts. These come in duplicate sets, each set bearing a serial number. Then they will provide a genuine SAFEA FEC, with the red SAFEA chop (seal), and bear the words, "State Administration of Foreign Expert Affairs, People's Republic of China". These schools that are actually licensed by the SAFEA to hire foreign teachers, will also most likely allow you to possess your FEC, since that is the intention, and also, because they have nothing to hide.
As with most things in China, it pays to look very closely at things, which are not always what they appear to be, but are, in every case, exactly what they are.
Suggest you check the governing regulations under Chinese law. ONLY THE SAFEA CAN LEGALLY PRINT AND ISSUE FECs. |
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