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anubistaima
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 110
Location: Thailand
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 Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm wondering, for those of us who want to teach in western Europe... would it make more sense to enroll in some kind of learning program (let's say, become a language student) and then teach freelance on the side? Wouldn't that make the entry into the country a lot easier? If you can get a student's visa (as long as you're not expected to attend classes for 8 hours a day), then you're in. Am I wrong? |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:16 am Post subject: |
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Except of course that the amount earnt as a language teacher from the hours that can legally be worked while on a student visa is unlikely to suffice even to pay the overseas (non-EU) student fees for the kind of course for which student visas are issued, let alone to cover ones living expenses while studying.
Back to the drawing board |
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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| stillnosheep wrote: |
Except of course that the amount earnt as a language teacher from the hours that can legally be worked while on a student visa is unlikely to suffice even to pay the overseas (non-EU) student fees for the kind of course for which student visas are issued, let alone to cover ones living expenses while studying.
Back to the drawing board |
And what if ones student fees were already covered, say by student loans and/or parents? Is it still not enough to survive upon, have an apartment?
Could you also work on the side/under the table doing something else? |
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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Most full-time jobs at the newbie level in EU member countries pay enough to live on - barely. You'd be hard-pressed to study credibly and also support yourself, though if you're willing to share housing, that would help somewhat. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Nobody mentioned credible study, only nominally study to facilitate the fraudulent uptake of student loans and/or parental payment of student fees and the opportunity to work illegally as an unqualified language 'teacher' which in turn undercuts the ability of local legal labour to bargain to improve their deplorable pay and conditions. |
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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| stillnosheep wrote: |
| Nobody mentioned credible study, only nominally study to facilitate the fraudulent uptake of student loans and/or parental payment of student fees and the opportunity to work illegally as an unqualified language 'teacher' which in turn undercuts the ability of local legal labour to bargain to improve their deplorable pay and conditions. |
...Or perhaps Im willing to try all avenues to fulfill my sense of adventure, my love of travel and to experience a new culture, a new city and a new country in a deeper way than a simple vacation can - perhaps Im willing to live for weeks in a hostel, or with roommates in a bad apartment, to live off of ramen noodles and potatoes, to barely get by - as long as I can smell the smells, see the sights, meet the people. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| OK. But do you really expect the local legally hired labour help you undercut their already miserable pay and conditions just to facilitate your deeper more meaningful long term vacation in Europe? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:59 am Post subject: |
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It's essentially all moot - the chances of being caught living/working illegally in Western Europe are pretty high these days.
Sooner or later the US passport you carry, lacking legit visas, will give you away.
It's likely to be sooner rather than later.
I've been queried this year not only at airports, but when travelling by train and even by bus. They're watching pretty closely. |
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ITTP
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 343
Location: Prague/Worldwide
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
It's essentially all moot - the chances of being caught living/working illegally in Western Europe are pretty high these days.
Sooner or later the US passport you carry, lacking legit visas, will give you away.
It's likely to be sooner rather than later.
I've been queried this year not only at airports, but when travelling by train and even by bus. They're watching pretty closely. |
It really depends on which country.
I don't think you can generalize about a whole section of a continent like that.
I know for example, that in Italy there are hundreds of US citizens teaching English - both legally and illegally.
The same applies for Spain.
The same doesn't apply for Britain and Holland (Holland - where Spiral spends the majority of her time?).
If you were there recently then you would see that work opportunities exist for N.Americans in W.Europe but that it's true that the legal route is a tough route. In Southern Italy we are aware that schools get round the work visa for N.Americans by having them officially on their books as students of Italian.
In the North of Italy though officially EU passport holders are preferred.
Still though, travel to any N.Italian city and you will meet with expat N.American teachers who are teaching English there.
It is doable and I don't agree with Spiral that people are 'watching pretty closely' for N.American English teachers - I think the authorities are more concerned with watching closely immigration waves from N.Africa.
Anyway, I originally came on this post to correct Spiral's statement that the work visa is expensive to get in the Czech Republic. Having lived here for almost 13 years I know this is untrue. Will publish this info as soon as we have received the updated fees for 2009.
As a ball park figure the costs involved inclusive are under 3,000 CZK (under $150), this includes transport costs and all documentation verification which you need.
This applies if you do it yourself (or if your school assists you - which is more and more common now).
If you choose to go through an agency then you can expect to pay the type of figure that Spiral is probably thinking of.
I'm not criticizing you Spiral - think your posts on the forums are usually if not spot on then close to the spot - just want to represent the facts as they are.
I would sum up that yes, some EU countries are tough on N.Americans overstaying their 90 day tourist visa status.
In the UK you can expect to be fined or even deported.
In the Czech Republic, and this is based on numerous accounts from recent grads, you can expect to receive a nonchalant waving of your passport through passport control and customs without even a blink of an eye.
This is fact now.
It might change in future.
Speaking now directly about the Czech Republic, the authorities here are concerned with rising crime due to Schengen membership.
The authorities are not worried about relatively wealthy N.American English teachers overstaying their time in the Czech Republic.
Have a great day everyone!
Neville 
ITTP Prague
Jungmannova 32
(Mother, daughter mix teaching with travel) :
http://www.poststar.com/articles/2008/10/06/ae/today/13973316.txt |
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Sigma
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| ITTP wrote: |
Anyway, I originally came on this post to correct Spiral's statement that the work visa is expensive to get in the Czech Republic. Having lived here for almost 13 years I know this is untrue. Will publish this info as soon as we have received the updated fees for 2009.
As a ball park figure the costs involved inclusive are under 3,000 CZK (under $150), this includes transport costs and all documentation verification which you need |
Only $150? The application of my work visa (Czech Republic) , and criminal record check ran almost 100 euros. This doesn't include other costs such as translations, stamps, certifications, travel to Vienna etc.... |
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ITTP
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 343
Location: Prague/Worldwide
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Sigma wrote: |
| ITTP wrote: |
Anyway, I originally came on this post to correct Spiral's statement that the work visa is expensive to get in the Czech Republic. Having lived here for almost 13 years I know this is untrue. Will publish this info as soon as we have received the updated fees for 2009.
As a ball park figure the costs involved inclusive are under 3,000 CZK (under $150), this includes transport costs and all documentation verification which you need |
Only $150? The application of my work visa (Czech Republic) , and criminal record check ran almost 100 euros. This doesn't include other costs such as translations, stamps, certifications, travel to Vienna etc.... |
Hi Sigma.
The Czech criminal record costs 50 CZK.
Some nationalities now don't need the home criminal record for the work visa (this is though needed for the Zivnostensky list - optional).
Also, if you choose to head to Vienna then there are expensive and affordable options of getting there.
Will publish the costs as soon as we have been updated by the visa office.
It is though now under 3,000 CZK.
Hezky den!
Neville
ITTP Prague
Jungmannova 32
Prague 1 |
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Sigma
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Actually, I'm only 2 hours from Vienna, so this was the 'cheapest' and easiest option for me.
I had to pay 7 euros at the Czech Embassy in Vienna. I'm aware that it is only 50kc in Brno (for example) as I had to get one in July. Now, I don't need a criminal record check.
How much does an employer have to pay for the work permit application? I believe my employer had to pay 2000kc for a stamp.
I still think $150 is a little on the low side. Perhaps it can be done cheaper, but I probably ended up paying closer to $300-$400.
Costs will only go up for those who are applying for their work visa from their home country. |
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ITTP
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 343
Location: Prague/Worldwide
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Hi Sigma.
The stamp just costs, last time I checked, 400 CZK.
Maybe that's one of the reasons why it cost you more.
Once again, will be checking personally at the offices these next few weeks and will get back with the current news and costs - once I've extracted it from the tight lips of the visa people in those lovely government offices
Talk later.
Have a lovely day!
Neville
ITTP Prague
Jungmannova 32
Prague 1 |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Neville, you obviously don't know enough about me to critize my point of view. I have not been checked for documentation only in the Netherlands.
But I have in fact been asked for documentation that I am legally in Europe beyond the 90 day stay in both Italy and Spain within the last twelve months. I was also asked at airports in Frankfurt and Brussels, but I think it goes without saying that airport security will be the toughest to get by without documentation. The Italy and Spain checks I underwent were on trains. The bus check was on the German border with Luxembourg.
Nor did I say that the visa process for the CR is expensive. I stated that the visa processes for the region can be - it is obviously not country-specific, and obviously costs change often.
I will certainly not argue at all with your knowledge of the costs of getting a visa for the CR. After all, as a training course provider, it's part of your job to have current info on these issues for all potential trainees.
It really depends on which country.
I don't think you can generalize about a whole section of a continent like that.
And, you do realize that this is the 'General Europe forum.' Generalizations are quite applicable here, I think. |
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