Job Discussion Forums

[Marcoregano]

[Cohen]

Sorry, but I beg to differ. If there were only two or three coloured NETs out of one hundred or so total NETs then, given the multi-ethnic nature of the countries from which most NETs according to your figures stem, I think that is significant (and very candid). Also, I have not suggested that the EDB have such a policy (though it really would not surprise me if they did, after all, they openly offer educational allowances to education bureau staff to spare them the horrors of the local school system! Thus those with the reins on the system have no vested interest in that very system! Bizarre!). Rather, I would not be surprised if principals steered clear of employing coloured NETs, most likely employing that old classic chestnut of an 'excuse', 'The parents wouldn't like it'. And, as I said, I have actually heard principals state in conversation that coloured NETs would 'scare the children'.

And I think it is important to know whether or not ABCs, CBCs, and BBCs, etc., can secure work as NETs on Hong Kong Island and at elite Band 1 schools in Kowloon, or whether, as I suspect, they can only get the posts Caucasian NETs don't want, viz., typically out in the sticks of the NTs.

Bear in mind also that you originally said, in reference to US NETs, that there were a lot (and that your wife was a NET from the US) and that my anecdotal observations were not representative. Many others then jumped on the �It can�t be true, there�s millions of US people in HK so there �must� be lots of US NETs� bandwagon. Then you presented some figures (without a verifiable source), back peddled somewhat, and conceded that in fact there were indeed very few NETs from the States (though, for reasons best known to you, you presented these figures on a separate thread). Well, I am not going to be too overly surprised if my intuitions on the question of coloured/non-Caucasian NETs are valid, too. As I say, I have never met a single coloured EDB NET in Hong Kong in close on ten years here. Nor have I ever even heard of one. That alone is significant to my mind.

Anyway, perhaps you could just clarify whether the figures you originally presented as referring to the total number of NETs do in fact represent the total number, or whether, as you now say, they refer to the number of newly-recruited NETs.

[Marcoregano]

All rather tiresome, but anyway...

[Cohen]

I see no need for you to get your knickers in a twist and/or to throw your rattle out of your pram.

If those figures represent the number of NETs recruited from each country in each academic year, (and contrary to what you claim this is far from clear or obvious), then there are a massive number of extant NETs, for, when added up, the figure is certainly very large indeed, and much larger than the figures both NESTA and the EDB have released regarding the total number of serving NETs. So, without any figures referring to the number of NETs who have not renewed their contracts the (unreferenced) figures you provide are all but meaningless.

And, contrary to what you claim, I did not say I had not heard of any US NETs. As you say, it's all there in the thread. What I said was that I personally had not met any � that I had heard there were one or two � but that I had not personally met any. You really shouldn't misquote and misrepresent people, it doesn't reflect well on you, especially when my (unedited) words are there for all to see on the thread in question. Furthermore, this anecdotal insight most certainly was not "erroneous". On the contrary, it was borne out by the figures you yourself posted!

I don�t think that seeking some form of verifiable source for such important figures on a forum for putative adults in any way entails a need to 'loosen up'. If you can't back up the figures you post then perhaps you should reconsider posting them. Anyone can say that 'x, y, z number of x, y, z exist in Hong Kong' without a verifiable source.

And, for your information, there does indeed appear to be an institutional basis against those from the US, as, simply put, many principals, parents, teachers, and panel heads are worried about US-English-speaking NETs 'corrupting' (as they see it) the students' English. I personally know of teachers from the US who had interviews with both the EDB and the Examinations Authority and who nearly walked out in disgust after being patronised and praised for their 'good' English, as if those from the US spoke some form of 'bad' English. One was even told by the interviewers that they would barely have known he was American!

I submit, based on my time here in this great city state, that there is also such a basis � an unspoken and undiscussed bias of course, but a real basis none the less � against those of colour. After all, many, many countries in Africa have English as their official language, their language of education, and/or as a lingua franca. Nevertheless, I am yet to see any advertisements for NETs in Kenya or Nigeria.

[Marcoregano]

Cohen, like me it would appear you have too much free time in your day job!

Knickers in a twist is certainly your forte, my good man, as evidenced by various posts. But Cohen, methinks you take both yourself and this forum too seriously. It is, generally speaking, a meeting place for a chat with other benighted souls in the world of TESOL, or to find out about jobs, not somewhere you'd expect to find material for your thesis.

Suffice to say that I disagree with much of your post above, and irrespective of minor detail the points made in my previous post above are broadly accurate, while misrepresentation is something that you have been specialising in. Your comments are indeed there for anyone to see, and serve to justify my remarks, should anyone be bothered to look (doubtful I suspect).

As regards the number of US citizens on the NET programme, it is clear the figures expose the innaccuracy of your earlier comments (there ARE quite a few US citizens on the NET prog!), not that it matters particularly - I only mention it because you have made such a tiresome matter of going on about it. Nor do I agree that the figures presented are meaningless. They indicate the numbers recruited to NET each year from those countries.

Anyway, this could go on indefinitely, so perhaps we can to agree to differ on our interpretations of each others' post, and get on with discussing something more worthwhile.

You claim the EDB has an institutional bias against the US - that is a serious charge. Can you verify it?

The one thing we certainly agree on concerns a likely bias against people of 'colour' on the part of myopic principals and backward officials.

Whether or not the NET prog has an institutional bias against US citizens IS an interesting topic, ditto whether or not there is a bias against people of colour, but the figures presented thus far don't give us any substance to go on - there my well be other reasons why US teachers are poorly represented - or rather - were only recruited in small numbers until recently. As to the other matter, I doubt whether the EDB would release (or even have) figures relating to NET teachers' ethnicity.

[Serious_Fun]