Job Discussion Forums

[Tank]

Hi people

Looks lik things have been pritty exciting since i left. Monkey trading are a joke. How's Mr director at JIC is he still BSing his way out of things. Anyone that worked ofr M-Trading should post at least one experience about in order to shame this company into closer.

[matthew156]

I have applied directly to JUC and had an interview conducted over the phone and the royal commission approved and extended me an offer. Could this mean that M-Trading might be losing their contract?

[Jolly Green Giant]

Dear Matt,

JIC uses M-Trading to supply manpower to their 'Special Courses Unit'. The SPU services local Petrochemical companies and their trainees with English language and specialist technical training.

However, the JUC, JTI and the ELC at JIC don't. The ELC at JIC hires teachers directly via the Royal Commission. In contrast, nearly all JIC/SPU teachers are sub contracted through M-Trading.

The ELC is the main English unit at the JIC and recruits separately to the SPU. In reality, they are two different entities but under one big roof. ELC Staff are equally shocked and dismayed by the M-Trading horror stories and keen to distance themselves from the SPU and associates.

It would better serve JIC interests to cease using them. Who in JIC management could have guessed how bad M-Trading really are before contracts were exchanged? AND who are we to tell a big college how to properly run its business?

[workerbee]

UPDATE:

The economic crisis around the globe has benefited M-Trading. Despite all the warnings out there about them they have received an influx of teachers. There have been so many newbies that JIC was in the position to fire two teachers for various reasons.

Of course this doesn't mean M-Trading has changed or god forbid improved. There last mix-up was on pay-day when they conveniently forgot to sign a large number of checks. Whoops, they did it again.

[arabesque]

I am an M Trader, and my experience with that company vastly different from those posted here, so I had to speak up. These claims seem greatly exaggerated.

M Trading worked hard to get me my visa--I had a real visa problem, and I was bringing over my family. M Trading never gave up on me, even though it took many months to get it straight, whereas the university where I work stopped taking my calls after about three days. M Trading answered every phone call, every email, and was very pro-active. They became quite well-known at the consulate where I was going, almost every day, to fill out endless forms and speak to people who suddenly became more helpful because of M Trading's intervention on my behalf.

I cannot thank them enough for what they did for me.

They also fronted me money for my family's tickets to KSA. I had some unexpected major surgery a two months before leaving, and M Trading advanced us quite a bit of money so that we could all come over together. Yes, I know I could have saved a lot of money by booking the tickets myself over the internet, but I did not have the ready cash to do this. M Trading helped me, and they took the money out of my first two paychecks. We did have a smaller paycheck, for sure! But we got here, all the same. When I arrived, other teachers told me the reason for the big deduction was that two M Traders had stayed only a few weeks before they quit, and M Trading was "out" the money for their tickets.

I understand this.

I am a grownup, and I do not expect companies in business to do things for free. And they have a right to recoup their losses and payments.

The hardest thing for people like Tacomaboy, workerbee, and the other BASHERS who post here is that, unfortunately, other teachers have better contracts than they do. Some teachers get "direct hire" contracts, and these come with many benefits that those of us with business sponsors don't get.

Surely, we'd all like the higher salaries and paid tickets!

But frankly, I am grateful for my job here. I am grateful to M Trading for helping me get it.

M Trading got me a great job at the University of Hail, and it is a super place. If you don't like Saudi Arabia, though, don't come here! Saudi is not for everyone. And if you need a big city, don't come to Hail.

But M Trading got me a beautiful house here, helped me enroll my kids in the best school in town, and we were picked up at the airport--no problem. But even if we hadn't been met, we know how to take a taxi by ourselves! I laughed when I saw that blabber on takomaboy's pathetic website.

Who sits in an airport for three days, waiting for a ride?

Yes, we carried our own luggage--we always do! That bit from Takomaboy was the laugh of the day!

And as for "generic contracts," well, again, that is a pretty funny thing to complain about! In KSA, almost all work is done by contract. And people all over the world use "generic" contracts--ask any lawyer! Our family lawyer looked my contract with M Trading over, and M Trading answered all our questions. I've signed two now, and the sky has not fallen on me! If you don't have a contract in KSA, you are very vulnerable to dismissal and deportation.

Why complain about that?

In the U.S., most employment is "at will," which means you can get bounced whenever....Most Americans would really appreciate getting even a "generic" contract! In any event, such "form" contracts are widely used in lots of countries.

I don't see anything sinister there.

What I see and hear, endlessly, is hours and hours of complaining and petition and letter writing, endless griping over things M Trading has absolutely no control over, as far as I can see. The people who complain the most and the loudest are usually the people with the thinnest qualifications and the least real teaching experience.

As for late pay, M Trading was two weeks late with my first check, but they paid me a generous salary advance, so it hardly mattered. M Trading's ability to pay on time is probably limited by the Saudi government budgets that rule almost every aspect of financial life here. As long as you get the advance, I wouldn't read too much into this.

They keep your passport because they need to update it for your visas. Yes, it would be much nicer to have an iqama, but that again is for direct hires. If you like, you can hold out for a direct hire position. But if you are a grownup person with a family depending upon you, you take the best job you can get, and M Trading is a good deal. They have been more than fair to me, and to others!

Look carefully at those who write these M Trading diatribes. You'll find that they are typically very ungrateful, and they blame M Trading for everything. And today it's M Trading, tomorrow it's the housing manager who is scheming to rob them, or the English director who they're calling a dimwit....it goes on and on and on.

Grow up, M Traders! By bashing this very decent, hardworking company, you are just putting yourselves--and others--out of a job.

Go back to China, go back to Japan, and Vietnam if things were so much better there. Go back...if you can....oh, look, what happened to your job??

[MyTrunkshow]

M-Trading is as much about the individual as the company.

There are problems, primarily with late pay, but as M-Traders have told me, they ALWAYS pay, just late. Housing varies substantially across the region, so M-Trading can't be blamed solely for it as suggested by previous M-Trading bashers. These issues, however, are not a problem copyrighted by M-Trading. Direct hires, though, who work side-by-side have a much better benefits pkg. As said above, herein lies much of the issue. It's human nature to expect a fair deal and takes a mature person to rationalize it when something is lacking. Some react so strongly that it makes being around them awkward. Others aren't down to their last penny each month so they are prepared for life.

One fella who was an M-Trader, who later became a direct hire the following year said that it was like banking money when M-Trading came forth with a massive check due to a backlog (incompetency in all likelihood or bureaucracy but probably a combination of the two.) He called that his silver-lining. He is, admittedly, a money-spender and appreciated being 'forced' to save.

The cradle to grave mentality and lack of gratitude for what is provided is not an admirable quality in an expat.

And Arabesque is spot on. If it's not M-Trading, it's the internet connection that's unstable, or it's the bus or it's having to pay back the flight or, or or, or....

As M-Traders tho, one is a free agent, so stick it out until the final exams are done and at least give the students a fair shake. Aren't students owed that much? Apparently not according to posters who drop their jobs in a lurch to go seek greener pasture.

The biggest surprise in my coming to Saudi has not been the work, nor the weather, nor the conservative culture, nor even the driving. It has been the disappointment in the professionalism around me. Some M-Traders 'striked' and stopped showing up for class. What kind of mess does this leave for the rest of us who are left holding the bag? Pretty low class, to say it politely. The students became pawns in a game they should not be. Some M-Traders complained to their students about their issues which is unacceptable. One teacher left with the student's records. I wonder if they reveal these actions when they complain about M-Trading.

Granted direct hires are more satisfied, but surely, surely, the M Traders knew that they would have to take the good with the bad? Doesn't everyone have Google to learn about the pitfalls?

And, there are grateful M Traders, who came over at a moment's notice. They had no cash, no job and no local prospects at the time. M Trading rescued them from personal financial ruin, picked them up from an airport, threw them in a house, a job and a new life while others in the same boat think, speak and brood over, "Damn, my pay is late. Again! Can you believe them? Can you? CAN YOU?"

By the way, the other company that does a lot of recruiting is Al-Falak. They have a much better record of paying on time...although late pay has occurred, but it was fixed within a week.

None of this excuses M Trading but how one handles it reveals a great deal about an individual.

mts.

[Stephen Jones]

[MyTrunkshow]

Do you think applying western ways in Saudi will get one want is deserved? Diplomacy, reminders and patience are what's needed or else end up like Tacomaboy (you're the self-appointed poster child for this tacomaboy, ).

Not going to class is very problematic for others having class and the students miss out on lessons as exams are often standard so they do more poorly owing to teachers not pitching for class.

Late pay does not equal working for free. Come on. The cricket analogy does not apply and mis-emphasizes the point.

mts.

[Stephen Jones]

Being paid on time is a western tradition not applicable to the inscrutable Orient?

You know, there are some bits of this cultural relativism lark I've never quite swallowed.

[trapezius]

[Stephen Jones]

I was also told that if you were a regular hire the UofH was a fine place to work.

Mind you, the guy that told me was the guy in charge of the English Department!

[Mia Xanthi]

[arabesque]

I spoke with several UOH direct hires who told me they were not paid for the first four months, and others who told me that, almost a year after the fact, they are still owed overtime. The likely problem is how the Saudi Government works out its annual budget, from which, in the education field, teachers are paid.

If your salary isn't figured in when the budget is negotiated (usually in October, I've been told), they have to move money around.

But even in the U.S., some universities make you wait 30 days or more to get a paycheck.

If you don't want the hassle of working in Saudi, don't come here! It is really that simple.

I was not desperate for a job--I had a good job. But I wanted to come to Saudi for a lot of reasons. And I am willing to put up with things that takomaboy and his friends gripe about constantly.

Getting paid "on time" for Takomaboy and his followers means, frankly, "getting paid exactly when the Direct Hire folks get paid."

It is jealousy over the Direct Hires, who have the better contracts, that motivate the M Trading BASHERS. That is what this gripe fest is all about. Does it spill over into the classroom? Of course it does! There isn't an hour that passes in my school where the disgruntled M Traders aren't complaining. What I most object to is when they write these ridiculous letters and petitions claiming to "speak on behalf of ALL M Traders, even those too scared to speak up for themselves."

What rot!

What a lie!

M Trading is a solid outfit, and they have done right by me, more than once. I would never bash them. Thank you, M Trading!

[Stephen Jones]

It is not the norm in Saudi to be paid late. In my previous post I forgot about the time we were paid late for one or two months in Riyadh (I hadn't even known about it because I just used the cash card and the fact the latest salary wasn't in didn't register). That was an exception for the employer who paid religiously on all other occasions.

Overtime is a different matter, because unlike base salary it often is not budgeted beforehand, but there is a heck of a difference between not receiving overtime until the end of semester, or even academic year, and not receiving your salary. The salary is what is required to live on; the overtime is icing on the cake.

With regard to the mess where the contractor is waiting for the government agency of private company to pay, it is still his responsibility to pay those he has a contractual agreement with. If the workers are on a labour contract they are within their rights to demand nullity of the contract after two unpaid months and either get paid the fare home or be given a transfer to another sponsor. The irregularities involved in giving labour services when on a business visa makes the exact rights less clear, but there is still the principle that the worker has been contracted by his employer, not the entity his employer sells its services to.

I was under the impression that when M-Trading took over the contract at Hail they were told that the University was likely to have to wait two months or so for the money to come through, and that M-Trading agreed they would front that money to ensure the contractors were paid on time. I wasn't privy to the meeting where that happened so I can't vouch for the veracity of the statement.

The timing of arabesque's and My Trunkshow's posts puzzle me. The thread was languishing, and the normal thing to do in that case is to let it languish, not waken up the sleeping dogs. Is it, that despite the meeting between M-Trading and the University at the beginning of the month when it was claimed everything had been sorted out, things haven't been, and the two are making a pre-emptive post to counter those who will feel hard done by once again?

It certainly doesn't do anybody any good to suggest that M-Trading is only worth being hired by if you "had no cash, no job and no local prospects at the time." so that "M Trading will rescue you from personal financial ruin". Not to the workers, not to M-Trading, and not to the University.

[MyTrunkshow]

Right SJ.

Good points in your last post. I am not an M-trader nor have I ever worked for a recruiter. The very term 'contract teaching' sends shivers down my spine as I've been reading these forums since 2001.

My post leaned towards the individual sorting oneself out, not allowing life bash one around. That theme was strong in my post. It was about M-Trading but also about using oneself as a personal resource, gaining patience and dealing with the punches Saudi throws.

As has been said repeatedly, Saudi may not be right for you...or you may not be right for Saudi.


mts