Job Discussion Forums

arioch36 · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 3589

We have the same problem in China. Many of the Chinese teachers let the "bad" students sleep, send messages on their mobile phones etc. If i hear once more that "cream will rise to the top...

I taught at another local college one day a week...a "three year college" There is a boy in the class who just sits through the class reading words in a dictionary. Wouldn't participate. Had transferred to the english major from computer science. The Chinese teachers said , "we just let him sit there, never cal on him". So I took his dictionary away. He didn't come to the next class...upset. But now he comes to every class and smiles, writes down in his notebook what I write on the board.

still can't speak a word of english though Wink

shenyanggerry · Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Location: Canada

If they want to sleep, they're not bothering me. Of course, I reserve the right to make sarcastic remarks if they do it in the front rows. I have enough Ss that want to learn (I hope) without bothering with those who don't. I'm at a university. If the Ss don't care, why should I?

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Glenski,
You are sounding a bit high and mighty on this one. My school is more of a juvenile detention center than a school. We get four types of students. One type doesn't come. Everyday they attempt to leave their homes, but then retreat in fear. They might make it to school once or twice a semester.

The second type simply didn't go to junior high school for the same reasons as the first group. These are my best students because they have started to take an active interest in their education. However, they are very fragile.

The third type are severely mentally and/or physically handicapped.

The fourth group, are the discipline problem. They come to my school because they cannot get into another school due to the very bad things they have done.

There is often overlap with the student problems. In addition to the cognitive, emotional, and physical disabilities there are often social factors involved. Many students come from single parent household either due to death or divorce. There are often problems stemming from the parents such as alcoholism or abuse. Many of the students were victims of extensive bullying while in junior high school.

That's the student situation. Since you are a teacher in Japan you are no doubt well aware that the foreign teacher has no legal disciplinary power. I have been told that I should not do anything in regards to disciplining students by all my bosses. There are Japanese teachers in the classroom with me who are supposed to do this job. None of the teachers I work with is effective in controlling the classroom. For this reason I routinely overstep my bounds and utilize different techniques of classroom control. However, my limitation is that of language. My students, despite my best efforts, do not understand the the tiniest amount of English. I am not supposed to use any Japanese in school although I sometimes do when when I absolutely have to.

My school is extremely poorly managed. There is no disciplinary system in place to help create andy clear guidelines of rules and repercussions (as it the case with most schools in Japan). A student cannot fail in my school. I can fail a student for a semester or in extreme cases for a year if they never come to class. However, if the student attends a one day session in the summer they will pass. Even it the student doesn't go to the session they will still be guaranteed to graduate just by the virtue of the parent paying money. It's impossible to fail, so the teachers have no leverage with grades. The whole school is based around the image of education. We have rules which aren't enforced, tests and grades which don't matter. Attendence requirements which are overlooked everytime a student doesn't meet them. The school is nothing more than a detention center for the bad kids, a care center for the disabled students, and a money making machine.

The one positive thing about the school is that it does enable a small percentage to acquire a minimal of education that they could not get in their previous school experience because they were unable to keep up with their peers.

Glenski, you're quick to judge other teachers on this issue. I'll abmit that before taking this position, I was too. But sometimes our high moral ground is barely above sea level and a strong tide can wash it all away. This is what happened to me. I hope it never happens to you, but I do request that before you make quick judgments about the quality of another teacher you take a moment to step outside yourself and imagine what kind of conditions it would take to drown you. Maybe you can walk on water in the classroom, I don't know. But I'd be willing to bet that you would wash away with the tide just like I have if you were put in a similar situation.

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

Crikey guest of Japan, I hope they pay you well! Shocked

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

guest of Japan,

I already prefaced my comments with "no offense, but", and I have to stand by that. Yours was not the situation that I was responding to. It sounds pretty bad, and until I see such details from the poster to whom I did respond, I won't back down.

Yes, I admit there are bad situations such as yours. Even in my own school (one supposedly of high rank by virtue of its name, but I don't believe it as much as others), we have similar grading problems. Yours are worse, but I'm not immune to the formats of passing students unless they are 110% over the line. 100% just doesn't cut it, I guess.

Yes, discipline problems are not easy for foreign teachers. My own language abilities now and when I started teaching HS don't always cut it. That doesn't stop me from doing SOMEthing, and when the staff doesn't back me on it, I have to resign myself to the fact that I can't change things, grit my teeth, and bear it. The only other option is quit. At least, I don't have students pulling out shotguns.

So, what about the poster I responded to? What are the conditions where you work? As bad as those at guest of Japan's school, or are you just seeing some minor disruptions that frustrate you when strung together?

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Glenski,
I apologize if I was overly defensive. If you look back you'll see that your most barbed comment was said after quoting me. I have no further issues to contend. Have a nice day.

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

shenyanggerry · Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 619 Location: Canada

Glenski, sorry to take so long to respond to your criticisms. I teach at a university. I am not a prison guard nor are my Ss forced to enrol. I teach oral English and take pride and pleasure in the growing English competence the majority of my students show.

For those who attend in body but not in spirit and expect to learn by osmosis; for those who are only there because the administration decided that cutting class could lead to the spread of SARS - tough. I offer instruction, I don't force it down anyone's throat.

And yes, I still answer emailed questions on the subtleties of English from Ss I haven�t seen since June. They care!