Job Discussion Forums

[spiral78]

Neville, if it's ' not impossible,' you need to be able to tell us exactly how you know that US citizens can get a legal work permit for Spain.

Your vague anecdotal evidence of 'possible' is misleading, otherwise.

[ITTP]

Hi Spiral.

I am amazed at your interest in this forum site. A post here and there at incredible hours of the day and night. I also noticed that many of your postings are extremely vague and misleading. For example, you often give the impression that Europe is off limits to N.Americans as they will never find teaching work here. Being based in Prague I have to argue that point and I have good reason to.

This is the General Europe forum and I would suggest consulting the Spain forum for exact details of how it can be done legally. I am simply passing on information that has come my way that it is possible to teach in Spain and also that there is a legal route. The vast majority of our grads choose to either stay on in Prague or head off to Asia so I'm afraid my exact knowledge when it comes to Spain is rather general. Like yours I imagine.
Had I posted on the Spain forum then I would expect to be able to provide exact details.

I simply wanted to express that yes, it is very difficult to find teaching work in Spain and Italy BUT that it isn't impossible.
I never came on here writing that it was realistic.
From the outset I wrote that it is extremely difficult.
However, I find it misleading to suggest that it is 'impossible'.
Also, I clearly wrote that it is MUCH easier in former Soviet Bloc Central and Eastern European countries and this was my original point.

I have no desire to lock horns with anyone on this forum so I would finally add on this particular thread that I respect your opinion and I have had my say and I hope other teachers who are in Europe can contribute to the posting.
It would be a great resource if we heard from as many locations as possible.

Is it possible to save money while teaching English in Europe?
It depends where you are teaching, what your daily costs are like, what your wage is like and how many hours you are working. Also, if you are able to save

Peace and funky weekend!

Neville

ITTP Prague
Jungmannova 32
Prague 1

[Mike_2007]

Much as I respect your posts Spiral, you're obviously a vastly experienced and very helpful guy, I think I have to agree with Neville in that you do tend to paint a very negative picture of the work situation for US citizens in the EU.

Yes, it is harder for non-EU citizens to work in the EU, but no more so than it is for EU citizens to work in the US, for example. It's totally normal and expected that an employer in one member state will be more inclined to make his job easier by employing someone from another member state if he can, just as a US employer in Florida is more likely to employ someone from New York than from the old York.

The points you frequently make about having connections in your target country, knowing the language, being on the ground rather than applying from abroad are all spot on and excellent advice. They are equally true for EU citizens applying for work in another member state.

However, I sometimes get the feeling from your post that you are suggesting that there is some EU-wide conspiracy against US citizens and that simply isn't the case. Lots of students prefer to learn US English as they are more familiar with it from films and the media. Many countries have schools which follow US curriculums and they also look to employ US citizens primarily. Sure, jobs are few and far between and intensely contested, but it's certainly nowhere near even being nearly impossible. I've known numerous Americans who have secured teaching jobs in the EU.

Best,
Mike

[hollysuel]

I am an American who has been teaching in Finland for ten years now. I agree with both ITTP and Spiral. As ITTP has said--it is not impossible.
As Spiral has said--it is not realistic unless you are well qualified and have connections. Both say that if you go to the former Soviet bloc countries it is easier.

I got to Finland through the TESOL conference and I have two masters degrees. When I was hired, they only hired Americans from that conference with MAs. My British colleagues however did not need an MA. Now the company that I have worked for does not even recruit from abroad. If you are an American and have the experience and education, the company would hire you, but they no longer sponsor visas. So, you would need to be in the country for another reason. That is the same situation in almost all of the western European countries. As ITTP has said, it is not impossible as I am living proof, but as Spiral has said if you do not have the education or local contacts it is very, very difficult! So, do not be surprised if you have a BA, a CELTA (or equiv.) and a few years experience in Asia or Latin America that the schools in western Europe will not hire you. The reason: they do NOT want to sponsor a visa. Keep in mind, however, that the countries in the former Eastern bloc are the exception.

There are also some exchange programs but they do not pay well. Here is one such scheme for Scandinavia, but I notice on the website that there are currently no openings (or they haven't updated the website). http://www.amscan.org/jobs/index.html

So, to sum up. If you are an American and can get to western Europe on a different type of visa, you would have no problem finding a job, but do not think that a language school would spend any money to sponsor your visa when there are so many British native teachers who do not have that expense.

[spiral78]

My 'negativity' is limited to those in the OP's situation - basic quals and a couple of years of experience.

This poster, and many others in his situation, are considering spending considerable sums of money coming to Western European countries to seek legal work.

In this context, it really is near-impossible.

I, too, am a US citizen working legally in Western Europe. I do not mean to imply that it's 100% impossible, anywhere, ever. However, I, like other North Americans I know in similar situations, DO have advanced quals, experience, local contacts, language skills, and LUCK.

But I firmly maintain that Neville's assertion 'Where there's a will, there's a way' is misleading to the newbies who visit this forum.

[sheikh radlinrol]

[naturegirl321]

The three countries you mentioned are hard to work in, legally. Speaking the langauge doesn't help for teaching English. You might look into studying though, some countries let you work while studying. See the PM I sent you.

[naturegirl321]

[hollysuel]

[MajorMajor]

i agree!

[spiral78]

Nope, Major, I'm not a mod. Interesting that you think I have some authority.

And just as I was trying to help you out a little bit on the Czech forum...

I don't think you read all of this thread:)

You're obviously in a country where you (wherever you're from) can work legally.

We are talking here about somebody with a North American passport who is asking whether he can get legal work in Greece, Spain, or Italy. He's contemplating spending a decent sum of money to go there and find out. He deserves realistic feedback - meaning it's near-impossible.

Believe me, I have a life! And a profession, and a family. Like quite a few regulars on Dave's, I take an interest in giving realistic info to newbies in areas where I have some long-term knowledge. Nothing nefarious about it.

[MajorMajor]

i'm from Oz honey and i teach in praha.ok?
also i read through the posts and the guy was asking about europe in general and you honey basically wrote it impossible.
you are not a moderator but i can see you on here 24/7.
one thing i agree with you is that you do take an interest in davescafe.
jeez.enough already!

[MajorMajor]

oh no.i just woke up the davescafe mafia
hey spiral honey love,thanks for the czech language tips but after your recent posting i have to say no thanks.
enough already!

[spiral78]

First time I've ever been called 'honey' in my life. Feels weird. Is that a normal Ozzie thing?

Why would you (or Neville) care what time/s I post?

What makes this personal for you?

You're from Oz and you can work legally in the CR.

The OP is from the US and asked specifically about Spain, Italy, and Greece.

Apples and oranges.

[MajorMajor]