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ESL work with PhD?
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Chancellor

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject:

dirimini wrote:

Chancellor wrote:

dirimini wrote:

Quote:

In some cases your PhD might actually hurt you. In Korea and I image it is the same in Japan and Taiwan, you will probably be seen as over qualified or at the least a threat to the local professor hiring foreign teachers. They will wonder why you want to teach freshman English.

Unfortunately, the same is true when seeking non-academic work in the US. I have been advised several times to leave the PhD off of my resume, as employers not only see you as perhaps "over qualified," but may also see you as a "flaky academic" with no real understanding of "the real world."

Sad to say, it's a degree with no use outside of academia.

Have you considered going back to school and getting a graduate degree in TESL/TEFL or in applied linguistics?

I have thought about this - but am wary after having spent so much time, energy and money on my Masters and PhD. At my age (mid-40s), I'm afraid of accruing much more debt without a real financial and personal payoff at the end of the day.

Mind you, I'm not in it "for the money" or "to get rich" - if I were, I never would have gotten a degree in the humanities. However, I do need to think of my future, and my ability to make a decent living, with savings.

To be clear, I love teaching - honestly, love it. And I love working with students, as I have for years, whose native language is not English. And based on my student evaluations, I'm extremely good at it. Would I rather do this than sit in an office all day and type up nonsense? Absolutely, no question. But can I envision doing it so that at 50 I'm barely making ends meet? Probably not.

Well, in making the suggestion I was taking into consideration your current level of education and experience and the possibility that you might want to return to your home country again. A MATESOL or masters in applied linguistics will make you more marketable for more than entry-level TEFL jobs and might get you into some ESL jobs at the university level in your home country.

dirimini

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 74

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I appreciate that, and thanks for the information. As I said, I've been thinking of it - but need to calculate what the cost/benefit ratio might be. I know there are no guarantees - but need to start making practical decisions before embarking upon even more (costly) education.

And again, thanks for the input.

JZer

Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Have you considered going back to school and getting a graduate degree in TESL/TEFL or in applied linguistics?

I would disagree.It is just my two cents but I think that dirimini should actually teach TEFL for a year or two before actually thinking about getting another graduate degree.

Solar Strength

Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: Re: ESL work with PhD?

dirimini wrote:

I�m hoping to get some input from experienced forumites.

I�m American, have a PhD in the humanities (popular culture/LGBT studies), have taught for several years (in universities), and am currently doing a teaching and research fellowship at an Ivy League university.

Yes, many university teachers teaching EFL have been hired with M.A. degrees or Ph.D degrees in History, Literature, Law and so on. In fact, I tend to think that most university instructors in Japan do not have TESOL Ph.D or Applied Linguistics degrees. And a lot of them, even those at full Professor and tenured, only have Master's degrees.

I know someone who was just hired as full-time faculty near Tokyo with a Ph.D in History.

dirimini

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 74

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:26 am Post subject:

JZer wrote:

Quote:

Have you considered going back to school and getting a graduate degree in TESL/TEFL or in applied linguistics?

I would disagree.It is just my two cents but I think that dirimini should actually teach TEFL for a year or two before actually thinking about getting another graduate degree.

Probably a good idea. Though I worry (again, at my age) about putting off starting a career another couple of years...

Quote:

Hmmm, the plot thickens. Perhaps it's not totally worthless...?

Maybe I need to do some "informational interviews," if only via email?

JZer

Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Probably a good idea. Though I worry (again, at my age) about putting off starting a career another couple of years...

What do you mean by a career?

I just want you to be aware that tenured university positions abroad are not easy to come by. You can ask Glenski and others.

In Korea I knew a woman who have a coveted North American PhD that would get a Korean porfessor tenure but the university just wanted to keep her on a contract for less money. She taught the same literature courses as Koreas. She even had experience teaching literature at the university level back in Canada.

dirimini

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 74

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Yes, I'm sure they're difficult to get. And it sounds as if the example you give is similar to what a lot of US PhD's face in the US - that is, working as adjuncts, doing the same work as tenured professors, but at a fraction of the pay. That's not the type of "career" I'm looking for - and from the sound of it, that would be exactly the type of thing I'd find abroad.

I have no aversion to teaching in a private school - but only if there were some reasonable hope of working my way up, over time, to a position of more responsibility and stability (and greater remuneration). I may very well be living in a fantasy world - but that's sort of what I'm trying to find out - which is why I appreciate all of the honest answers, even if they're not what I want to hear. Better to have the bubble burst in the fantasy stage, than to make a commitment to another ill-advised plan.[

JZer

Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I have no aversion to teaching in a private school - but only if there were some reasonable hope of working my way up, over time, to a position of more responsibility and stability (and greater remuneration). I may very well be living in a fantasy world - but that's sort of what I'm trying to find out - which is why I appreciate all of the honest answers, even if they're not what I want to hear. Better to have the bubble burst in the fantasy stage, than to make a commitment to another ill-advised plan.[

Anyways, maybe some other posters will disagree! Comments anyone.

Solar Strength

Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:12 am Post subject:

dirimini wrote:

What does the word, remuneration mean?

spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject:

pay

JZer

Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject:

Quote:

remuneration

Does not mean pay! It means pay and any other goods of value that one receives in return for one's services.

spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:38 am Post subject:

I know that. I was making it as simple as possible. Should have said pay and benefits.

dirimini

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 74

Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:47 am Post subject:

Maybe I should post a query on the Russia/CIS thread.

JZer

Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:06 am Post subject:

Quote:

dirimini, the United States and Europe are about the only places in the world that offer unemployment and retirement benefits. Most people around the world save for their own retirements.

Check out the resent article "Spending is Patriotic" in China Economic Review. It tells how rural people in China will not spend money because they save it for medical problems and the future since there are no safety nets in China.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:36 am Post subject:

JZer wrote:

Quote:

Anyways, maybe some other posters will disagree! Comments anyone.

If you mean private school = private high school (or JHS), then there is essentially no advancement. Contracts are for 3 years for FT workers, and if you are lucky to get a tenured (sennin) slot, you will have to take classes to get a Japanese teaching license (and then renew it every 10 years). Your pay will rise incrementally with your age, but only in very small amounts.

If you mean private school = eikaiwa, you'd be a fool to consider staying there beyond a year or 3. Moreover, the only advancement is to manager, and they (especially the foreign ones) are usually despised because they don't have a clue what they are doing and are often tyrants.

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