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mcgillaa
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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I think the thread has gotten a bit off topic for this question, however I will say this:
Racism is everywhere, varying degrees, at varying levels. No one is perfect.
There are also two sides to every coin, so Qumath you take what you will from the conversations and make your decisions. Personally, going through selection processes myself, I have found that, at least from the perspective of being outside of Hong Kong, it is not easy to get sponsored to HK for an English teaching job without having specific credentials. You may not get the best pay in the world, you may not have the easiest job, but if your goal is to go to HK to live and to work, then whatever gets you there will be enough, correct? It all depends on your perspective.
Myself, I am torn between taking a better paying position in Japan, versus taking a very, VERY low paying position in Hong Kong (13k HKD/Mo) but being with people there who I am close to, care about, and want to be near. HK has been a pull for me for a long time now, and I would love to live there...The question is survivability.
So, my suggestion would be to go with your gut... and maybe actually go to Hong Kong and attempt to acquire a position there, leave the country, then re-enter with a validated visa. So far that appears to be a common practice among those ESL teachers I know in HK. I would utilize that myself, but coming from the US, it's extremely expensive to get to HK.
I wish you luck in whatever you do, though, who knows, I may run into you at a pub! |
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Yes Sir I Can Bogey
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| Marcoregano wrote: |
| As to your obsession with proving that HKers are racist, the same could be argued of the UK, USA and many other countries - the vast majority of which exhibit far more crime (including violent crime) against minority peoples, than does HK. |
I don't accept that at all. As I state above, I doubt very much whether in the UK, USA or any other country, that the government would put in writing that someone could not get a hawker's license because of their ethnic background. And you have obviously not read the book I link to if you think that minority groups in HK do not suffer violent crime at the hand so of the Hong Kong Chinese. I would have thought being branded by a hot iron constituted violence. And what about the pretentious members only clubs and restaurants on HK Island which display signs informing their patrons to make their maids use the rear door, out of sight.
| Marcoregano wrote: |
| And coming back somewhat to the OP, what of the NET prog, which sees hundreds of non-HKers brought into local schools on very good salaries? I can't see Mainlanders being invited to UK schools and paid salaries in advance of most of the local teachers. |
What does it have to do with Mainlanders? They can only go to the UK on a group tourist visa. Also, the UK does indeed import foreign teachers. Besides, are you suggesting that racism is okay in HK as long as the foreigners are paid well? |
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Marcoregano
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:13 am Post subject: |
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YSICB, we could (seemingly) argue about this till the cows come home, but this is hardly the place - it is off topic. If you want to continue a debate on racism in HK then start a thread on that subject. I have already said in various posts that I agree that racism exists in HK, and I am well aware that south Asians, especially those employed as domestic helpers, often suffer at the hands of locals.
However, on the whole, and certainly so far as Gweilos go, there is comparatively little racism in HK. Just look at the many mixed culture communities all over HK where people of all creeds and cultures live together harmoniously. They even put up with people like you complaining all the time, assuming you're in HK that is, which seems debatable. Why would someone with such a a negative view of the place choose to live here? |
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Yes Sir I Can Bogey
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Marcoregano wrote: |
| However, on the whole, and certainly so far as Gweilos go, there is comparatively little racism in HK. Just look at the many mixed culture communities all over HK where people of all creeds and cultures live together harmoniously. They even put up with people like you complaining all the time, assuming you're in HK that is, which seems debatable. Why would someone with such a a negative view of the place choose to live here? |
First, contrary to what you claim, there is no less racism here than anywhere else, and, in fact, as evinced by the fact that governmental agencies are even prepared to state in writing that 'non-Chinese' people are barred from certain work there is considerably more. As I said before, racism is deeply ingrained into the very fabric of Hong Kong. Indeed, it is so blatant that people simply cannot see the wood for the trees. I can only assume you have not ever heard a HK Chinese person rant and rave about and slag off Mainlanders, that is, their cousins. How many HK people do you know who are prepared to 'admit' that their parents, or at most grandparents, stemmed from China? Also, the very terms you use � like 'Gweilo' � are themselves racist. If someone employed a term like 'Chink', or 'Gook', or 'Slope' there would be outrage. 'Gweilo' is okay though as it refers to foreigners.
Second, I am in HK, but, unlike the likes of you, I do not ignore less than ideal aspects of where I choose to live, as that would constitute self-delusion. As regards 'complaining about HK', I would merely point out that the locals themselves certainly don't seem to like to each other. I have never ever, for example, seen a HK Chinese person strike up a conversation with a stranger, or say 'Please, after you'. They don't even have up buttons for the lift. You have to go down to the lobby then go up if you want to 'visit a neighbour'. Why? Because locals simply don't to know their neighbours, let alone visit them, even if they have had the same neighbours for ten years or so. Also, locals certainly don't seem to like HK, so why should anyone else? Most if not all locals I know are desperately saving up for a Canadian, or Australian, or New Zealand passport. Why? Because they want the hell out of the place.
As regards your laughable reference to the "many mixed culture communities all over HK", you are quite obviously unaware that, with the exception of the Mainland, Hong Kong is the most racially and culturally homogeneous land there is. The 150,000 or so Filipino maids in the territory alone make up some 40% of the non-Chinese population of the SAR, and as regards the other 60% general local opinion seems to be that Mainlanders are backward (and everyone in HK is 'indigenous' and therefore totally unrelated to any Mainlanders), Indians are smelly, Filipinos are further down the evolutionary scale, Nepalese are drug-dealing scum, and all Westerners are seedy, over-paid louts (who live on outlying islands because they cannot handle HK). |
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kowlooner
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 230
Location: HK, BCC (former)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| "Because of the obstruction and nuisances caused by hawking activities, the Authority had since 1970 adopted the policy of not issuing new hawker licences under normal circumstances with a view to gradually reducing on-street hawking activities." |
This is taken from the Food and Environmental Hygiene Dept's website. And The Standard had a story about this earlier this year with regards to ice cream vendors (just google it), basically how the trade was in danger because of the government's policy on hawker licenses. Apparently, no new hawker licenses have been issued since 1978. I doubt YSICB's friend (what was that about "I know a bloke who ..."?) was turned down on the basis of his ethnicity. If it were so, take it to the newspapers! They'd have a field day with the story!
And the book YSICB's linking to about maids. It was published in '97, and perhaps things are not exactly the same now. Or maybe they are. The book's short introductory review (click on "about the book") says the author also "warns against any simplistic characterization of domestic workers as either empowered or oppressed, class-conscious or unaware." YSICB may be a bit simplistic in his characterization of them being oppressed.
And so, back to the main topic. Qumath, your main issue is that you have no teaching experience. You do have a BA with a major in English. Being a native speaker, and with a degree in English from presumably a British university (quite a bit different from a local HKer with a degree in English from a HK university, from an employment standpoint), you clearly have an advantage. But again, it's the lack of experience that will count against you. Taking a short, 2-day course might give you a piece of paper, but it will do nothing to make up for your lack of experience.
Obviously, a real course with actual classroom teaching practice will help you much more. For one thing, it will help you evaluate whether you really want to do language teaching. And on a purely practical level, it will give you a basic grip on lesson planning and classroom teaching technique. When you do apply for a job, you'll have a decent idea of what you'll need to do so that you don't require extra training and can hopefully hit the ground running. In short, you'll be less of a risk to a prospective employer. And even if you can't find a job right away (though it shouldn't be that difficult), you'll be better equipped to do private tutoring in the meantime. Since you don't need to bother with a visa, you have a bit of flexibility there. Actually, your not needing a visa will also help your job-hunting prospects tremendously.
At the beginning, it will be unlikely that you could get a position outside of a language school, but there's nothing wrong with that. The main point, again, is experience. And the only way to get experience is, well, pretty self-evident!
Best of luck. Hope this helps. |
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Marcoregano
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 872
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Yes Sir I Can Bogey wrote: |
| you are quite obviously unaware that, with the exception of the Mainland, Hong Kong is the most racially and culturally homogeneous land there is. |
YSICB, you often make reasonable points, but sometimes do go over the top, and the above quote is a good example. Hopefully we can get back to the OP and/or move on. |
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Yes Sir I Can Bogey
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Kowlooner, your faith in Hong Kong is admirable, but misplaced at best and downright delusional at worst (quoting from a governmental website is evidence of this). I can only assume you are one of the horde of ex-pats in HK who, for reasons best known to themselves, are simply unprepared to even so much as entertain the very possibility that HK is inherently racist and sexist and intrinsically backward and corrupt.
Yes, 'Maid in Hong Kong' was published in 1997, but it is only 2009 now, so that was a mere twelve years ago. This period of time is absolutely nothing in the greater scheme of things, especially when it comes to deeply ingrained cultural beliefs and practices. I would like to know what makes you think/assume that things have changed so radically in such a short period of time. What brought about this punctuated development in attitudes towards and treatment of foreign domestic helpers on the part of their Hong Kong Chinese employers? Was it the Handover, and/or the influence of the PRC? Why then is there still an ever-growing waiting list for maids to have a Western, i.e., non-Hong Kong Chinese, employers if the attitudes of locals have changed so much?
Perhaps you are not Mr. Current Affairs, perhaps you do not read the newspapers or watch TV. Perhaps that is why the missed the story of the tax levee imposed on maids? Perhaps you missed the story about the poor Indonesian maid who was repeatedly raped by her HK Chinese employer, made pregnant, and then savagely murdered as she refused to have a back street abortion. Perhaps you missed the story in the SCMP (16.02.09, p.C1) entitled '12pc of Indonesian maids 'underpaid''. Perhaps you missed 'Plight of many foreign domestic helpers goes largely unnoticed' (SCMP, 25.04.09, p.A10), etc., etc.
You say the press would have a 'field day' with the story of the refusal of my friend's hawker's license on account of the fact that he is 'not of ethnic Chinese background'. Well, it was brought to their attention and, as they correctly noted, HK does not have any anti-racism laws or ordinance. The recent attempt at bringing such a law in was roundly condemned by most if not all relevant international watchdogs and bodies as being itself inherently racist!
Besides, what about all the other things we could postulate the media would have a 'field day' with? What about the fact that the government awards more form 5 places to boys than girls as 'girls mature faster than boys'. Nature gives girls an 'unfair advantage' in maturing before their male counterparts so therefore the government must intervene and 'right' this natural 'wrong'. Surely you could sit back in your chair and claim that this cannot be true for it were the press would have a 'field day'? Well, have you ever seen any mention of it in the press? No, you will not, because the press are mainly HK Chinese, and the HK Chinese are Chinese, and the Chinese favour boys over girls, and this is simply reflected in official, educational policy.
What about when Undersecretary for Commerce and Economic Development Greg So Kam-leung said, and I quote, "My Canadian citizenship never changed the fact that I am Chinese" ('Two surrender passports to defuse row', The Standard, 30.05.08) Bizarre! Note he says 'Chinese', and not 'a HK citizen' or 'a holder of a HKSAR passport', or even 'HK Chinese'. He is of course (proudly) referring to his RACE/ETHNIC GROUP! Working by your logic, surely the media should have had a 'field day' with that comment! After all, imagine if a white, Anglo-Saxon British politician had said 'My Australian/US citizenship never changed the fact I am Caucasian/Anglo-Saxon/Teutonic/Nordic/etc.'! |
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