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BocaNY
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 131
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 Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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To OP,
You stated that you wee looking into a CELTA program but wanted one in FL. There is one offered in FL in Miami at the FIU north campus. It's in connection with the CELTA in NY. If you go to teachinghouse.com you'll find info on it.
I do think if you can to try and do the course in a country were you would like to teach. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| fladude wrote: |
| I've never taught an ESL class (but have taught other things) and I totally agree with you. I can't imagine just plunking down overseas and start teaching without some kind of immersion program. |
Well, here in Japan (and I'm sure other countries as well), it happens all the time. In fact, it is practically the norm here.
Degree in any major is ok.
No experience is often necessary.
No certification is needed (or even understood).
Hardly any Japanese language skills are required.
Some employers recruit from abroad specifically because they don't want a population of candidates who know the score about some of their shady dealings or who have acclimatized to the environment. The greener the better. |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
If you want to make a career of it or want to do it in your home country, go on and get state teacher certification in TESOL
Chancellor, I think you're pushing a long, expensive, and highly committed route (pursuing teacher certification) to people who only aim for now to get their feet wet in the job. |
No, I'm "pushing" people to think about what their goals are here - whether just getting their feet wet (in which case they should probably just go do a volunteer opportunity), do TEFL for a few years (in which case these entry-level qualifications we keep talking about will certainly suffice) or do this as a career (or perhaps eventually return to one's home country and teach ESL; which is where the degree and - if one wants to teach children - state teacher certification would come into play).
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Then again, I can see the day when this discussion will be irrelevant because these other countries will require us all to get government teacher certification in our home countries.
This makes me wonder how many countries you've taught in. Of the five where I have (three at university level) this is clearly NOT a coming trend  Further, as you point out, teaching certifications are only useful if one wants to teach children. Many, many of us don't. I have a viable career in TEFL/TESL, which I could pursue in my home country if I wished, but it has NOTHING to do with state teacher certification. Many regular posters on the forum have similar qualifications to mine - and don't have state certifications. It's one route - but certainly not necessarily the best or only one. |
I'm prognosticating based on general trends from backpacker ESL teachers to TEFL certification to degrees required for entry into various countries (the degree requirement being separate in many cases from the TEFL job requirements).
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On the subject of on-line basic courses: Things like methodology, grammar and morphology can be taught just as easily online; one can just as easily write a lesson plan on one's computer as one can in a classroom.
I have worked on two newbie-level teacher training courses, and currently train teachers from this and other international universities in learner-centred methodologies. I work both on entry-level introductory programs and programs for career teachers.
A basic certification course is not just about the technicalities of a classroom, like the grammar and methodology you mention. Other aspects of a language learning classroom are less mechanical and more subjective - but vitally important. |
Some of these other aspects come from doing the teaching practicum, which can only be done on-site.
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| For example: the AFFECTIVE atmosphere of a classroom is something that we can analyze and discuss - when there is an actual classroom involved. |
But this would be part of the experience of the teaching practicum.
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| Another important item that can't be clearly demonstrated or observed outside a classroom is ways to grade teacher language and use student-student communication to move things along. |
Again, that's where the teaching practicum comes into play.
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| Online entry-level courses by definition must concentrate on the mechanics of a classroom - but by definition omit considerations of the very important subjective aspects of communication that are vital to successful classrooms. |
See above.
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| Newbie level courses obviously can't go into anything in detail, but successful newbie teachers SHOULD be able to leave at the end of the month with some clue about ALL the basics - and quite a lot of what goes on in successful classrooms CANNOT be experienced via a computer screen. Therefore, a newbie without supervised teaching experience in a training situation DOES NOT have the whole 'basic' package needed to work with students. |
These things you say cannot be experienced on a computer screen can really only be experienced doing the teaching practicum.
Your error here is in confusing the teaching practicum with the certification course work. Let's put it this way: no matter what a prospective elementary school teacher might learn doing the education course work for his or her education degree, there are certain things that teacher will not learn until he or she actually does student teaching. The same thing is true in learning how to teach ESL/EFL - there are just some things you can't learn until you do the actual teaching practice. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, if you're advocating a practicuum, I'll agree that that component will address the subjective/affective aspects of a classroom.
However, clearly teacher certification will not ultimately be required by many countries - consider the fact that it's related to teaching children. Many of us (at all levels from private language schools to universities) do not deal in any way with young learners.
I still think that it should be clearly emphasized that teacher certification is a route to pursue if one eventually wants to teach children in one's home country or in international schools abroad.
Otherwise, it's not a widely applicable route to the field. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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thoughts on courses-
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| As I said, "I agree that the ideal would be to take an on-site course in the country where you want to work." But don't turn people away from the field just because they can't take four weeks off from work (or, worse, quit their jobs) just to take an entry-level course. |
While I really respect your posts in general, CHancellor, I have to say that the "can't take 4 to five weeks to do a course" argument doesn't make any sense to me. If a person is considering going overseas to work, that person is going to quit his or her job back home. Quiting a month earlier (or starting overseas teaching a month later) doesnt' seem too complicated. I know, there's a financial issue- but if you WANT to do an onsite course, it doesn't seem impossible, as far as I can see, to stay in the job a little while longer, and save up money for that extra month. I couldn't "afford" it when I did my course; meaning it was a big stretch, and created some hardships. But I did it, because it was what I felt I should do. THis idea that some people "can't," implying that those of us who choose to are somehow privileged, rubs me the wrong way. If I get two apps, one who DID an onsite qualification, and one who COULDN'T do an onsite qualification, my assumption is that it was really a matter of choice. And yes, I'd be inclined to give preference to the applicant who chose to put more into it.
I respect your defense of distance education, but it IS a choice.
Best,
Justin |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin, thanks for that - I too was bugged by this aspect of Chancellors' (in many ways very useful) posts, and hadn't mustered the energy to coherently express what you've just clarified so well. |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Ok, if you're advocating a practicuum, I'll agree that that component will address the subjective/affective aspects of a classroom. |
The practicum is absolutely essential!
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| However, clearly teacher certification will not ultimately be required by many countries - consider the fact that it's related to teaching children. Many of us (at all levels from private language schools to universities) do not deal in any way with young learners. |
Though something equivalent to what some places here in the states refer to as certification in adult education might later on down the road.
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| I still think that it should be clearly emphasized that teacher certification is a route to pursue if one eventually wants to teach children in one's home country or in international schools abroad. |
I think we agree on that point.
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| Otherwise, it's not a widely applicable route to the field. |
But as various second- and third-world countries figure out they can actually hold out for better qualified teachers, expect the entry-level requirements to change - as evidenced by the fact that the days of the backpacker TEFL are pretty much gone. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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But as various second- and third-world countries figure out they can actually hold out for better qualified teachers, expect the entry-level requirements to change - as evidenced by the fact that the days of the backpacker TEFL are pretty much gone.
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Hear hear! Sort of. Here in Ecuador, the backpacker days are regrettably still with us, though offering good teacher training is one of the ways I'm plotting the end of those days.
I haven't seen too much sign of entry level qualifications changing in the time I've been in the field. (Almost ten years.) Cert it was, and cert it is, though cert options and validity in those years has got quite a bit more confusing, due to the proliferation of nonsense certs on the market.
I wouldn't mind if they DO though, and share your view that they're likely to. I'm hopeful that they'll change in favour of fuller, deeper, more complete English as a foreign language teacher training options, rather than home country QTS or anything like that- teaching English overseas is a separate skill set from teaching high school social studies, and English language teachers should be trained with that in mind.
So in my opinion, home country teaching licensure is a great route into doing overseas the kind of teaching you might have done at home. (IB and International Schools would seem like examples of this.) I wouldn't see it as a route in the kind of EFL (ESP, EAP, ESL) work that a lot of us here do, though.
Best,
Justin |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Situation in Japan;
No certification is needed.
A degree is just one way to get a work visa. While it is the most common (the other being merely 3 years of relevant teaching experience), there is no requirement for the degree to be related to teaching, linguistics, etc. for most entry level jobs.
The "trend" here is to flood the market with any warm body. Universities are a kind of exception. "Kind of" means more and more jobs are going to the part-timers. International schools are also an exception; one needs a license and teaching experience from one's home country most of the time.
There is going to be no worldwide governmental policy to require anyone to have certification or licensing. Who would police it anyway?
Getting a proper degree, training, and/or certification is up to the individual and their goals & perceptions of the need. Obviously, if you want to be as well-prepared as possible, a certification program should include a practicum. Want to skimp and get a weekend certificate? You pay for what you get. |
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Chancellor
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1337
Location: Ji'an, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Trullinger wrote: |
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But as various second- and third-world countries figure out they can actually hold out for better qualified teachers, expect the entry-level requirements to change - as evidenced by the fact that the days of the backpacker TEFL are pretty much gone.
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Hear hear! Sort of. Here in Ecuador, the backpacker days are regrettably still with us, though offering good teacher training is one of the ways I'm plotting the end of those days. |
Hence my use of the phrase "pretty much."
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| I haven't seen too much sign of entry level qualifications changing in the time I've been in the field. (Almost ten years.) Cert it was, and cert it is, though cert options and validity in those years has got quite a bit more confusing, due to the proliferation of nonsense certs on the market. |
Again, I'm looking forward into the future here.
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| I wouldn't mind if they DO though, and share your view that they're likely to. I'm hopeful that they'll change in favour of fuller, deeper, more complete English as a foreign language teacher training options, rather than home country QTS or anything like that- teaching English overseas is a separate skill set from teaching high school social studies, and English language teachers should be trained with that in mind. |
Here in some parts of the US there are specific state qualifications for adult education (like what the teachers who run the adult ESL programs here in Buffalo are required to have) and I can see something more along those lines happening elsewhere. Maybe I'm just a bit more optimistic that other countries are going to start seeing themselves as worthy of more than an Anglophone country's cast offs.
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| So in my opinion, home country teaching licensure is a great route into doing overseas the kind of teaching you might have done at home. (IB and International Schools would seem like examples of this.) I wouldn't see it as a route in the kind of EFL (ESP, EAP, ESL) work that a lot of us here do, though. |
Obviously there's a huge difference between teaching children and teaching adults but even people who teach adults are likely going to need at some point more than an entry-level certificate. As globalization increases, I can see disparities between qualifications in various countries decreasing over time. |
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