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Cubic09
Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 66
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
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 Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:53 am Post subject: Re: ok |
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| nomad22 wrote: |
| although im keen to go to NZ for a while, and it looks like a beautiful place i wonder why so so many kiwis want out. |
Well, wages are still quite low here. The cost of living is low here also, though if you have the good ol' Kiwi dream of owning your own home, you're plum out of luck...many Kiwis go overseas to earn the higher salaries on offer, and return several years later with enough to raise a house deposit.
NZ is a wonderful country, but yes is somewhat insular. We're nothing like the Aussies, which to me is a shame - after all, they're the 'lucky country'.
I think the thing that causes the most trouble in our small country is crime and violence - if you removed all of our darker-skinned population, we would be fine! Half of our prison population is Maori, who constitute 15% of the population...just google 'New Zealand' and 'child abuse', and you'll get the idea. Sadly, Once Were Warriors is a true representation of how the other half lives.
And yes, I realise poverty is part of it too. But take a straw poll of ordinary Kiwis and they would say much the same thing - even though 'political correctness' is a word often-used here. |
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aroha
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 66
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:14 am Post subject: |
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New Zealand is SMALL in terms of population, but it is only as insular as you choose to make it, especially if you live in Auckland or Wellington. I have always had friends and colleagues from various ethnic and cultural backgrounds.
Sorry to go off topic but Cubic09, your flippant comment about removing our darker-skinned population is extremely offensive! What century are you living in? New Zealand does have serious problems with violence and child abuse which is a tragedy, but I know several people from well-off NZ European families who were violently beaten by their fathers when they were children or teenagers. Violence and abuse is not just a problem with "darker-skinned" people!
Is it still popular to use the expression "politically correct"? It seems to be the favourite phrase of anybody who wants to ridicule other people's opinions without justifying their own. |
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Cubic09
Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 66
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| aroha wrote: |
| Sorry to go off topic but Cubic09, your flippant comment about removing our darker-skinned population is extremely offensive! What century are you living in? New Zealand does have serious problems with violence and child abuse which is a tragedy, but I know several people from well-off NZ European families who were violently beaten by their fathers when they were children or teenagers. Violence and abuse is not just a problem with "darker-skinned" people! |
You're quite right Aroha, child abuse isn't a purely Maori / Pacific Island thing. If you're in Mexico, you're unlikely to be a party to the continual stream of violent news reports about Maori and PIs abusing their children. And I'm serious, there have been no news reports of white people doing the same thing. I think your friend's experiences were probably swept under the carpet, however it's a little hard to ignore child abuse when the child ends up in a hospital ward and dies!
It's truly unfortunate, but those are the facts. I'm as educated as anyone else, but it doesn't take a genius to realise what is going on here. Both Maori and Pacific Island peoples have lost their roots, and one cannot expect safe middle-class values to rein them in.
I'm truly sorry for the offence Aroha, but it's important people hear about NZ from a Kiwi perspective. We celebrate our Pacific heritage, although it's critical to realise that there are very negative aspects to these cultures, and in recognising this we can begin to help them. For people with little experience of Maori or PIs, it truly is a shock to suddenly learn of these crimes and the prevalence with which they occur (NZ tops the OECD for child abuse). And no, these aspects are not appropriately recognised and addressed, otherwise we wouldn't have 50% of our prisons filled with our native population! What a waste.  |
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keitepai
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:19 am Post subject: |
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The crime statistics do paint a poor picture of Maori and Pacific Island people and unfortunately they are caught in a downward spiral and can't seem to pull out of it. This is a combination of poverty and lack of education and when this is combined with a negative attitude to being self reliant people lose the ability to cope on many levels.
However abuse happens across all socio economic levels - I have worked in social agencies and it just comes in different forms across the population. It is definitely more reported when there is a Maori or Pacific Island child abused. Also abuse in the upper socio economic levels is not as visible to the community and is more likely to remain hidden and secret.
So, sadly this is another of the reasons families leave NZ. It is not meant to be racist or blaming just the reality.The general violence and gang mentality across NZ is terrible....brown and white. The people that leave NZ are generally the more motivated and open minded, then the others are left behind!
I was in a relatively well paid job in NZ but still found it difficult to look after a family on my income. If I felt stressed then I cant even imagine how a factory worker from Otara must feel. NZ needs to change for sure in many ways.
I also know I don't want my kids at a NZ public school right now with all these social issues, huge class sizes and lack of respect for teachers.
I am enjoying my relaxed lifestyle, paid holidays and happy kids over here  ! |
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Cubic09
Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 66
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| keitepai wrote: |
| However abuse happens across all socio economic levels - I have worked in social agencies and it just comes in different forms across the population. It is definitely more reported when there is a Maori or Pacific Island child abused. Also abuse in the upper socio economic levels is not as visible to the community and is more likely to remain hidden and secret. |
Quite true. The abuse in upper socio-economic group is probably more emotional than physical.
I guess the point that I was (quite poorly) attempting to make is that a high degree of violence tends to permeate NZ society, and that it appears to be highest in Maori and PI populations. This may well be a reflection of poverty, however I tend to believe it's more a reflection of a culture that accepts it. And without being crass, Maori and PIs tend to be much larger people...so if the violence turns physical, the fallout is that much greater.
The historical move of Maori to the cities (circa 1950s, I think) caused many to lose their tribal roots, and it tends to be these that keep individual members. I must say, I am envious of the familial links that many Maori families share - they are definitely something that us tight-lipped Pakeha need to replicate.
Good to hear you're making a good go of it in Turkey, that is a place I would love to visit; I know I love their food at least.  |
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