| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
|
 Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:20 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| On that basis I would challenge anyone to suggest valid reasons why a $200 i-i course would offer any advantage or benefit over a fake $10 cert, |
I would agree not only with I-I cources but esl certs in general... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sugar Magnolia
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Posts: 233
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have an "i-to-i" TEFL certificate and it, or any other piece of paper that says TEFL certificate, has gotten me a few jobs. Without that mere "piece of paper" they wouldn't have hired me.
I now earn 300 per 90 minute class. It's not the best salary, but 12k per month before taxes, 10 classes per week, with a free apartment isn't bad!
Albeit, I won't be paid this summer or any other holidays.
PS - I also learned a few things from the online course. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Without that mere "piece of paper" they wouldn't have hired me. |
That is kind of the point .. little dif if the FT actually went or just has paper... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sugar Magnolia
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Posts: 233
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Exactly, dude.
So, anyone can simply create their own certificate, but some may be more interested in actually learning something, whether it be by reading a book or what they, the online company, tell you to read.
Either way, you learn something.
The question is - can you sleep with yourself knowing you "lied" concerning your "credentials"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sharpe88
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 226
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| the places that would be fooled by a fake or online certificate.. usually are not the places that you want to work for very much in the first place. But for those who feel it's helped them, more power to them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The question is - can you sleep with yourself knowing you "lied" concerning your "credentials"? |
I for one would think that most of the certs are lies as well, really providing no real teaching abilities and given in such a short time period to negate any practical learning or practice...but I think it would be the same level of difficulty in obtaining a peaceful rest as indentifying oneself as a teacher after completion of said certificate..
| Quote: |
| the places that would be fooled by a fake or online certificate.. usually are not the places that you want to work for very much in the first place. |
As most municipals will accept any cert, it has become primarily a paperwork requirement as opposed to actual indication of ability...copies usually work as well so .. it is anyone�s guess as to how many are legitimate ... but I have never even seen a inst. Check on these certs .. even if some will check on school attendance � or check the applicant out with a credit agency�.most simply hire in mass or as the need arises and care little about the actual certs obtained by the applicant.
I am not advocating the use of fakes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sharpe88 wrote: |
| the places that would be fooled by a fake or online certificate.. usually are not the places that you want to work for very much in the first place. But for those who feel it's helped them, more power to them. |
This problem isnt limited to third rate schools in China. There was a very good story in the Toronto Star earlier this year about a guy who produced and sold top quality fake degrees in Toronto and to anyone anywhere who wanted to pay for one.
Here's the article:
Phony Degree Scam Exposed
This isn't the full article that appeared originally, but in the original it cites many examples of well-known companies and a few prestigious schools of higher learning (law schools for example) that were fooled by these fakes. I think the real question isnt: why you would or wouldnt want to work for a place so easily fooled or that doesnt do any checking? The real question should be why aren't the people responsible for hiring/enrolling people checking the validity of such pieces of paper? A simple check would solve a lot of problems and put a lot of these fly by night operators out of business. Many organizations do the checking but in some countries (China?) I don't think they can be bothered to make the call.
btw, note the identity of the perp in the article above. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| The real question should be why aren't the people responsible for hiring/enrolling people checking the validity of such pieces of paper? |
time limits and privacy issues as well as the problem with obtaining release forms...and due to the period of time most contracts cover and the relatively low rate of pay, it is more cost effective to hire on criteria such as appearance and race/native countries as opposed to actual credentials.
also a simple reason for not checking credit reference which usually will tell what degree of education as well as past employers is that most schools have no way to pay for such services.. corporate credit cards are not common...even foreign currency accts are not normal among Chinese schools...
Peng Sun's university cafe menu
$3,000 - most university degrees (York, University of Toronto, etc.)
$6,000 - University of Toronto-post 2006 (with anti-counterfeit hologram)
$1,750 - Student photo ID card
$1,000 - Two copies of sealed transcripts, on watermarked paper
$900 - Graduation letter from Canadian university
$800 - Enrolment notice
$600 - Proof of tuition payments
$500 - Admission letter from university |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| evaforsure wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The real question should be why aren't the people responsible for hiring/enrolling people checking the validity of such pieces of paper? |
time limits and privacy issues as well as the problem with obtaining release forms...and due to the period of time most contracts cover and the relatively low rate of pay, it is more cost effective to hire on criteria such as appearance and race/native countries as opposed to actual credentials.
also a simple reason for not checking credit reference which usually will tell what degree of education as well as past employers is that most schools have no way to pay for such services.. corporate credit cards are not common...even foreign currency accts are not normal among Chinese schools... |
much of what you wrote above is true. but from the article we can note this:
| Quote: |
| U of T graduates about 12,000 students a year. Both U of T and York get several hundred calls each week from prospective employers and other universities, many of them overseas. Anyone with a concern about the legitimacy of a degree should contact the Registrar's Office at either school. |
hopefully a growing number of universities are making it easier for employers and other schools to check up on qualifications earned/awarded. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nickpellatt
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1522
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldnt really advocate lying about credentials ... not really. I think its interesting to note that many of the online course suppliers do lie about their credentials though. Their websites are full with logos that say 'member of' and 'accreddited by' as well as the infamous phrases 'internationally recognised'. There have been one or two threads over in general and newbie where their claims have been analysed and come up short.
Claims where they say they are a member a certain group or organisation suggesting endorsement ... and whilst they may indeed by a member...searches of the organisation website do not list the endorsements assumed.
In fairness ... Im sure I did learn something from the course ... but not enough to justify the high price tag and the terrible cert that I dont think could be checked. I have time on my hands and Im bored ... so Ill do that tomorrow...try and check the validity of my i-i certs and see if they hold records.
Anyway ... the point in question here ... concerned the OP. Bearing in mind the prejudices he is likely to encounter here .... I do not think anyone can be justified in recommending an 'i-i' type online cert as being advantageous to him. Not really.
The positive side of my 'i-i' cert is it also helped me land my first job. I had been volunteering in a small town in Hainan, and before I went home I approached a local college that employed FTs regarding work. This was Dec 06 ... they offered me a contract to start March 07 on the condition I took a TEFL course. I took the 'i-i' ones, and sent them PDFs whilst still in England.
When I came back they never asked to see the originals, and they gave me a house to share with another FT. The other FT had dont the same as I ... volunteered locally, and then secured a position. Because he was going to be in China anyway ... and was sure to be there for day one of the new term....they never bothered asking him to get a TEFL cert of any kind...an ever greater illustration of the fact my course and cert werent really needed.
Same guy has remained in China since then ... working 18 months in Hainan, 6 months in Yangshuo...and is now in Beijing happily working on his legal Z visa / RP still without a TEFL cert or degree. You often dont really need anything, but to be in the right place at the right time (like everything in life really). If you are going to get something though ... which I would recommend...you are far better investing your time and money in something which has substance. The CELTA / Trinity type course is a pre-requisite in other countries and organisations like British Council places ( after all .... you may not be in China for ever) and even if you never teach again ... a CELTA / Trinity is accepted for University Credits towards a BA/BSc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
evaforsure
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
