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summerheaven
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 56
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 Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Companies that don't require a degree? |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
I sympathize with you because you've been wanting to go to Japan for a long time, you want to go there while you're still young (presumably so you can learn the language, which just gets harder and harder as you get older), etc. I totally sympathize with that. However, Japanese immigration generally requires either a bachelor's degree (technically not four years, a "bachelor's degree" is defined as any piece of accredited paper that says "bachelor's degree" and took at least three years' worth of courses). Either that, or you can get a visa with three years experience (very difficult to get without a BA unless you were teaching in China or something).
However, I just want to let you know some alternate routes you can take. You can live there on a student visa and get a work permit after one semester of study that lets you do about 20 hours a week. You can go on a cultural visa and get a work permit in a similar fashion.
You can also go on a Working Holiday visa (however, America chooses not to be part of this program, so if you're American, you can't do that).
The reason the advertisements don't always state that they require a four-year degree is because *SOME* people manage to get working visas without four-year degrees. They might already have visas through Japanese spouses, or be under a returning Japanese program (like Brazilians).
Anyways, I sympathize with your problem because I too have to wait a long time to enter Japan. My solution was to work under the table in Korea to earn money and get my associate's degree. Once I had that, I came to Taiwan, where an AA + TEFL is okay for a working visa. Here in Taiwan, I'll earn more money and fund my BS. Then I'll go to Japan. Using this system, I'm able to live *CLOSE* to Japan without actually living *IN* Japan. I've visited Japan five times by boat from Korea.
I don't think Japan's laws will change, because many, many people want to work there, and Japanese immigration can set the bar pretty high. Korea was forced to change its visa laws to fill public school vacancies. Japan doesn't have to do that. Taiwan got more teachers by allowing an AA + TEFL combo (which is how I found a job), but now all these teachers are flooding into Taiwan and I think they're going to change their visa laws soon to be just like Japan. |
Maybe I don't understand your post 100% or maybe you didn't get my post... but I'm not going to take a break from my life and teach English in Japan. I think most people are getting that impression because they mention some under-the-table stuff. I want to do the teaching thing as a coop placement. So if I do go over to Japan, I'll have to settle it with my university and do every nice, clean, and legal. No under-the-table stuff!
Can you teach English in Korea, China or Taiwan without a four year degree?
I'm learning Mandarin in uni right now so I wouldn't mind at all to go to China or Taiwan. I saw a coop job posting at my university about teaching English in Taiwan but I saw it a day before the deadline so I didn't apply. So I'm assuming that they don't need a 4 year degree....?
Please let me know if I'll need to make a new thread in the Korea, China or Taiwan forums about this. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I needed to show a degree to get my work visa in China but maybe on a z visa you can do a cultural exchange work placement. But you aren't really allowed to be paid a wage otherwise that is considered working, you can only receive living allowances. I know that how it works for many of the people studying TEFL in China get the the work experience needed to complete their certificate.
You should post over in the other forums. Most people here only know about Japan.
But also, you should try to find an advisor at your uni to sit down with and have a good long talk about already established options avaliable to you since you have handed over money to participate. |
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summerheaven
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
I needed to show a degree to get my work visa in China but maybe on a z visa you can do a cultural exchange work placement. But you aren't really allowed to be paid a wage otherwise that is considered working, you can only receive living allowances. I know that how it works for many of the people studying TEFL in China get the the work experience needed to complete their certificate.
You should post over in the other forums. Most people here only know about Japan.
But also, you should try to find an advisor at your uni to sit down with and have a good long talk about already established options avaliable to you since you have handed over money to participate. |
My uni's very international, I know for sure that there are people working in China... Not teaching English though, it's some sort of business job.
I just looked at my uni's coop website again and I'm seeing some teaching English in China and Korea as well as Japan and Taiwan.
I'm definitely going to talk to my advisor, I've been emailing her to see if we can meet up but she never replies  I've even tried dropping in at her office but she always has an phone conference or something. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:53 am Post subject: Re: Companies that don't require a degree? |
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| summerheaven wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
I sympathize with you because you've been wanting to go to Japan for a long time, you want to go there while you're still young (presumably so you can learn the language, which just gets harder and harder as you get older), etc. I totally sympathize with that. However, Japanese immigration generally requires either a bachelor's degree (technically not four years, a "bachelor's degree" is defined as any piece of accredited paper that says "bachelor's degree" and took at least three years' worth of courses). Either that, or you can get a visa with three years experience (very difficult to get without a BA unless you were teaching in China or something).
However, I just want to let you know some alternate routes you can take. You can live there on a student visa and get a work permit after one semester of study that lets you do about 20 hours a week. You can go on a cultural visa and get a work permit in a similar fashion.
You can also go on a Working Holiday visa (however, America chooses not to be part of this program, so if you're American, you can't do that).
The reason the advertisements don't always state that they require a four-year degree is because *SOME* people manage to get working visas without four-year degrees. They might already have visas through Japanese spouses, or be under a returning Japanese program (like Brazilians).
Anyways, I sympathize with your problem because I too have to wait a long time to enter Japan. My solution was to work under the table in Korea to earn money and get my associate's degree. Once I had that, I came to Taiwan, where an AA + TEFL is okay for a working visa. Here in Taiwan, I'll earn more money and fund my BS. Then I'll go to Japan. Using this system, I'm able to live *CLOSE* to Japan without actually living *IN* Japan. I've visited Japan five times by boat from Korea.
I don't think Japan's laws will change, because many, many people want to work there, and Japanese immigration can set the bar pretty high. Korea was forced to change its visa laws to fill public school vacancies. Japan doesn't have to do that. Taiwan got more teachers by allowing an AA + TEFL combo (which is how I found a job), but now all these teachers are flooding into Taiwan and I think they're going to change their visa laws soon to be just like Japan. |
Maybe I don't understand your post 100% or maybe you didn't get my post... but I'm not going to take a break from my life and teach English in Japan. I think most people are getting that impression because they mention some under-the-table stuff. I want to do the teaching thing as a coop placement. So if I do go over to Japan, I'll have to settle it with my university and do every nice, clean, and legal. No under-the-table stuff!
Can you teach English in Korea, China or Taiwan without a four year degree?
I'm learning Mandarin in uni right now so I wouldn't mind at all to go to China or Taiwan. I saw a coop job posting at my university about teaching English in Taiwan but I saw it a day before the deadline so I didn't apply. So I'm assuming that they don't need a 4 year degree....?
Please let me know if I'll need to make a new thread in the Korea, China or Taiwan forums about this. |
I don't think I mentioned in my post anywhere how to do things "under-the-table." You must be thinking of other posters. What I wrote about were legal ways you could work there.
Do you have a TEFL certificate? If so, you can teach in China without a degree. Most urban areas seem to be requiring degrees these days, but hard-to-fill spots in the countryside are often still doable without a degree. Of course, this might have changed. Ever since the Olympics, China has been acting like it's sh** don't stink with regard to visas and visa hassles.
Taiwan is hard to get a job in right now, not because the visa is particularly difficult, but simply because of market conditions. Everyone and his brother who wants to study Mandarin have arrived looking for EFL work at higher wages than China. The country only has 23 million people to begin with, so the EFL market isn't very big, and it's totally flooded with teachers, similar or worse than Japan. I have experience and a CELTA and still had trouble finding a job. In theory, you can teach English in Taiwan with an ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE and a TEFL certificate instead of a four-year degree, but the job market is so tight right now, I doubt you could get hired from overseas with less than a BA/BS.
Korea requires a bachelor's degree for hagwon work -- no exceptions unless you're a Korean citizen. Not even for Korean-Americans on their special Great Pure Han Race of Supermen F-4 instant permanent residency visas. Some public school positions are open to people with only two years of college/an associate's degree, BUT these positions are usually through specific programs like GEPIK and TaLK and they have very rigid deadlines. Plus, Korea is the anus of the world. Trust me, I lived there for five years, it's just filled with extreme racism and xenophobia on a level not seen elsewhere in Asia. I don't think it's worth it to work there for the kind of denigration they expect us to endure. Korea is kind of like the ugly girl who wears a T-shirt that says "You suck, I'm way too good for you." |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Never heard of this sort of coop arrangement. I'm American.
Can you find out exactly which sort of visa you are issued on this program? |
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summerheaven
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Never heard of this sort of coop arrangement. I'm American.
Can you find out exactly which sort of visa you are issued on this program? |
I don't know, but the visa takes about 3 months to complete.
This program is for Canadian universities only, so I'm not surprised if you've never heard of it.
I'm trying to set up a meeting time with my advisor but she STILL hasn't replied to my email. I'm really annoyed. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I would be very surprised if it wasn't a working holiday visa. I can't imagine what else it would be. The 3 month time frame seems to fit that too. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:57 am Post subject: |
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No, the 3 month time frame does NOT fit the pattern for a working holiday visa. WHV takes 2 weeks to get.
PM me with the name of the coop. I'm curious about the visa. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:22 am Post subject: |
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It's almost definitely a tokutei katsudo visa (designated activities).
The Canada-Japan Co-op Program sounds like exactly what the OP is describing.
http://www.thecoopjapanprogram.com/index.php |
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summerheaven
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
It's almost definitely a tokutei katsudo visa (designated activities).
The Canada-Japan Co-op Program sounds like exactly what the OP is describing.
http://www.thecoopjapanprogram.com/index.php |
Yes, that program is the one I'm talking about. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ok, it doesn't come right out and say what sort of visa it gets for you, but the word "internship" crops up a lot, so perhaps it is the internship visa. Designated activities, maybe, but the site mentions work as well as internships, so maybe both of these are possible. I wasn't about to fake going through an application just to find out. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| 'tokutei katsudo' is a type of visa. (Apparently it goes by the term 'tokku' in immigration). It's for 'designated purposes'. Basically, it's special permission to enter the country for people the government wants to allow in for a specified purpose, but otherwise are not eligible for a visa. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Just to clear something up. You do not need to have a college degree to get a work visa. Undoubtedly 99% of companies ask you to have one and 99% of those who get a working visa have one, but it is not the only way.
You can also qualify for a working visa if you can prove at least 3 years experience in a related field. The problem is finding an employer who is aware of this second scenario. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| The OP is still an undergraduate student. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| 'tokutei katsudo' is a type of visa. (Apparently it goes by the term 'tokku' in immigration). It's for 'designated purposes'. Basically, it's special permission to enter the country for people the government wants to allow in for a specified purpose, but otherwise are not eligible for a visa. |
I think we're talking about the same thing, Gambate. MOFA describes the designated activities visa as follows (emphasis mine):
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| Activities that are specifically designated by the Minister of Justice for foreign individuals. (For example, activities on the part of foreigners who wish to enter Japan as personal help privately employed by diplomats, consular representatives, etc.; foreigners who wish to enter Japan under bilateral working holiday agreements*; foreigners who are employed by companies, etc. and are active as athletes in amateur sports and their dependent spouses and children; foreign lawyers engaged in international arbitration affairs, etc. university students engaged in internship activities.) |
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