Job Discussion Forums

[khmerhit]

FYI---if you would like to see an example of how Maoism destroyed a nation, look no farther than Cambodia. The leaders of the KR were indoctrinated in maoist dogmas in beijing during the cultural revolution. When they came to power in 1975, they wasted no time in sweeping away the corrupt and unfair capitalist society that they had been trained to despise-- along with a few other things. Now, that corrupt and unfair era has been restored, and it is much worse and far more unequal than it was before, and whatever vestiges of civil society existed before the war have been lost.

I think we in the West take museums (and the values that they pass down) for granted.

Just my two rmb

[killian]

CKS didn't start out as a tyrant. he started a runner for a gang. the gang sent him off to the military. his gang connections helped him rise in the military. given the chance, he graduated to warlord. japan invaded and he adapted to being a quisling with great ease. when true patriots refused to acquiesce to his "trading space for time" vs. japan what did CKS do? he sold the war goods acquired from the US lend lease program to the japanese. the true patriots had little choice but to side with the communist people's liberation army. the true patriots and the PLA quickly drove CKS and his gangs back south once the common enemy (japan) surrendered. the bifurcated KMT fled. the elite hitched a ride from the US 7th fleet to new allied own territory of taiwan. others were sent to bordering thailand to await future orders (they are still there, stateless, apparently awaiting future orders for their booming drug business). no, taiwan STILL hasn't done anything to bring them over.

after losing the mainland, CKS met his full potential as tyrant. taiwan had been part of japan for two generations. people spoke japanese, adopted japanese dress. the KMT came and everything Japanese was prohibited. those speaking/dressing japanese were beaten. prior to the arrival of the KMT, taiwan was one of the richest areas in asia. the KMT gutted it. the electric lines were pulled down. grain was confiscated. the KMT induced famine on a land of farmers on a verdant isle. when the farmers raised the slightest protest, what happened? massacre. the upcoming holiday on february 28th is in remembrance of those who died at the hands of the father of their nation,CKS.

many taiwanese today do not know these facts. the educational curriculm is controlled yet by the KMT. until last year, in world maps for taiwan usage mongolia was still listed as part of the republic of china despite the fact that it has been independent since 1911.

CKS a tyrant. oh yeah.

(anyone interested in finding out more about the spread of real china can't go wrong seeking out LORDS OF THE RIM by sterling seagrave. essential reading on why much of maritime asia (and beyond) is the way it is.)

[Aristotle]

Let's not forget the aboriginals.

[Klamm]

I'm going to go with China but I haven't been to Taiwan so it's hard to compare.

The visa situation sounds much better in China. I've just read on the hassle in Taiwan. What gives? Come a tourist visa fly to Hong Kong and so forth? Ar? Sounds like a big run around.

Also, the hours in China are generally less from what I gather. I teach 18 forty minute periods a week. Salary is 6,600 Rmb a month (after taxes) and I can live on about 1,500 Rmb a month.

Studying Chinese is what you make of it. I study both simple and traditional characters. Sure, they don't use traditional here but I live near Hong Kong and go there frequently.

Also note: Much more vacation time in China. Nice. And you have more freedom to leave your job if you don't like it. Life is very cheap here. You can live high on the hog or take a taxi half way across the province to a McDonald's if you get lost. It's easier to get around.

And let's not forget the cheap DVD's and Cd's. There's so much here.

How can Taiwan compare? Please explain.

K.

[killian]

hmm...you can work as much as you want. ain't nobody got a gun on you...unless you are in a chinese bank.

i did both.

the pay was much higher in taiwan. i was able to salt away 1000 US per month no proble.

the pay in china was much lower.

the hassles were the hassles. china had hers and taiwan has hers. what do they say? "SSDD."

taiwan has provided me with a nice nest egg that would have take decades to amass in china.

we all come on over to teach for different reasons. am glad i saw both countries.

[brian]

It's good to get some input from both sides of the fence.

Having worked in both Taiwan and China, I vouch for Taiwan anyday. As killian says, the money is much better over here. The visa situation is really quite straightforward bearing in mind that you generally hear the worst on these boards.

For me it is life outside of school that is far better here. I assume that you will be living in some form of school dormitory or school provided housing. Don't expect any privacy there as the security will be asked to keep a close eye on you, both for your own security and the schools. The quality of living there is pretty bad when compared with Taiwan. It would be difficult to make a life for yourself there as an English teacher. Here in Taiwan we seem to have everything we need and more, and you can really make a life for yourself without any trouble.

I guess everyone has individual expectations, but having seen both sides of the fence, I know that Taiwan is the place for me.

[Klamm]

One thing no one can help noticing: Folks in Taiwan generally started in China.

For long-term stays, I think I could agree Taiwan is probably the fairer option (even though I haven't been there). I think I'll switch to Taiwan sometime in the next year or so, even though I've been very happy with my China experience. The only hang-up I have are the hours versus savings. I work 18 forty minutes a week and can save 600US a month. That's not bad. Everything I see on Taiwan seems to indicate that Taiwan would not much outmatch that financially? In other words, I'd need to work a more hours to make up the change. People who save a 1000 a month generally work twenty-five or thirty hours a week. Any thoughts?

K.

[jason_seeburn]

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[jason_seeburn]

[Klamm]

What do I do with my freetime? I study and read a whole bunch. Free time used wisely and productively will go a much longer way toward a happy life than extra dollars. Everyone knows that. The greater amount of free time in China is an excellent reason to decide on China over Taiwan. I can study characters and I have a significant library of over a hundred books. Classics, philosophy, and so forth.

This is life. You're living. If you want and feel the need to sacrifice more of your freetime for dollars, then go to Taiwan. Just think about it for awhile first...money won't bring more happiness in of itself (it often brings less). More free-time, wisely used, is better. Just know how to use it to increase the quality of your life. I can save enough for what I'm doing now. Probably Taiwan for a year or two before graduate school ($).

This focus people have on money...what gives. Can't find anything better to do? I guess what I'm saying is that to just feel Taiwan is a slam dunk over China because you make more money is silly. Some of us have very active creative and intelligent minds. We can use our free time and travel and with four thousand or so savings a year (that's after traveling all over China, with three-four months vacation a year). So is so much more money necessarily better?

You make more money. Great. And some of us, a very few of us perhaps, are taking advantage of a tremendous opportunity here on the mainland. Long vacations and travel in a country as diverse and expansive as China (or elsewhere if you like), some savings, 12 hour work week, the greater and substantial happiness through humanities study...life can be extremely good here. But life is like that: It's what you make of the opportunities and chances.

K.

[TaoyuanSteve]

Of course, if free time is something you want, you can have it here also. It's kind of silly to suggest that you can't have free time here. You can work as much or as little as you want. The only difference is you are paid better here.

[Klamm]

Ok. Break it down. People sometimes speak in tongues on this board.

You can work 12 hours a week, live comfortably, and save five hundred to six hundred US a month? No run around and so forth?

Give it to me straight. I'm all ears.

K.

[brian]

Klamm, I suppose that you would have had to have lived in both Taiwan and China before you could really come to appreciate why Taiwan offers such a good opportunity. From what I understand of your experience to date, you have been to neither Taiwan nor China. A number of people who post here have lived and taught in both countries � so I would think that their actual experiences count for something.

For your own reasons you have chosen China over Taiwan, and good for you. You will no doubt have a wonderful time there, and I am sure that all of my Taiwan counterparts wish you the best.

As for your claim that you can work less and seem to save more in China but not in Taiwan, well that is factually incorrect. The minimum number of hours that you can work in Taiwan to be legal is 14 hours a week. Plenty of time for studying Chinese and reading books, as you have indicated are important for you. Assuming that you stuck with this minimum and were earning only NTD550 (USD16.50) per hour, you would still be bringing in NTD30,800 (USD924) per month. The average job on the mainland would pay about RMB4000-5000 (USD543) per month, and I am assuming that this would be on a full workload. I don�t know anyone here in Taiwan that has a share apartment that costs them USD400 per month, so you would actually be better off here in Taiwan, and you would actually have a life too.

[Klamm]

Brian eh?

You must not have read my posts. I AM currently working in China and have been for two years now.

People assume Taiwan is a better deal because it is higher pay on the surface of things. Let's look at the real picture.

So for working 14 hours a week you'll make 924 US a month? Great. A hair more than I am making per month but note that I'm making a hair less for 1) Working 12 hours (and there is plenty of part-time work available for 12.50US 16.00US an hour here) 2) In a place where the cost of living is much lower. 3) My salary is after taxes. If I gave my pre-tax salary it would be higher. 4) Free housing in China along with other benefits.

Cost of living in China? Lower than Taiwan. Definitely. I don't need to go to Taiwan to know that.

Look, if Taiwan is your thing that's great. But my point here is to let people know that China is a great chance. Obviously, if you really need and want to make a lot $ than Taiwan is for you. But if you're after a good balance between savings/study/travel China is a wise option. Saving 600 US here is not difficult for me. Some people like to spend more and hence would save less. But keep in mind I'm saving that and working very little. I have plenty of time for my outside interests. I also have a lot of vacation time which people normally don't get in Taiwan.

Here's the deal: China's a great chance right now. It's a lot cheaper to get set-up and into a good position. Better to hack something out here study and discover yourself through travel for a few of years while saving than it is to rack up at some 25-30 hr. post in Taiwan with two weeks vacation a year like most first-timers in Taiwan. Work, study, learn, travel, and save while here in China and than if you're still into teaching English and would like more savings, go to Taiwan.

Sorry, your island country does not compare to the loads of minority culture, mountains and everything that this vast country has on offer.

Anyone else?

Enjoy life.

K.

[Libertarian]

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