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When do Universities Hire in Taiwan...
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar Strength wrote:
Leanne retired a couple of years ago and MOD EDIT took over, is he no longer heading the ELC.


No she didn't. According to my friend, she was simply moved to another admin position because she didn't fit the new economic plan with her degree in Nutrition. In all probability she'd have been fired, but the law in Taiwan protects those that have been in the system for more than a year, forcing them either to move that person into another job or otherwise pay severance pay to the amount of 1 month for every year served.

Quote:
MOD EDIT still there - he has a blog he keeps, which I havenot read for many months...doesn`t he have a degree in Sociology (another example of universities hiring people with non TESOL or Applied Linguistics or other relevant degrees).


Yes, he's still there treading water. I read his blog a while back where he announced that he'd be embarking on doctoral studies at a Taiwanese university. As far as I know, he still focuses his publicational activities solely on his blog.

Quote:
do their teachers still have to go out to Taoyuan once a week or so


No, the economic rationalists at the top have deemed it necessary to travel out there at least twice a week. Some unfortunate souls have to go out more than twice. In fact, the bus trips out to Taoyuan are a continual source of annoyance to teachers and have caused the dismissal of at least one angry ELC teacher who stood up for his rights one early morning.
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Solar Strength



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting....

my friend tells me that the ELC Director at Chinese Culture University had only a B.A. degree in Math. Has taught up there since the 1970s.

she suddenly reported earning a Master`s degree this year in �sian Studies`from Soochow University where she also taught part-time for years.

lots of strange stuff happens up there, apparently.

teachers at CCU are encouraged to get involved in campus activities - i.e., skit contests, dance contests, etc. - as opposed to publishing.....none of them really publish or write papers.

i was also told that a lot of the Chinese professors at Chinese Culture University get upset with the foreign instructors because they`re hired with only Master`s degrees while local teachres must have Ph.D degrees.

the policy is that those hired with only Master`s degrees have 6 years to obtain a doctorate, but it`s never enforced. So none of the foreign instructors have ever set out to earn a doctorate.

their ELC`s future is not all that certain either from what she`s told me. lots of foreign teachers being assigned to different departments. THey have been removed from the ELC and are now faculty in the Business Administraiton Dept. or the Educaiton Dept. or the Law Dept., etc.

have you heard of this before at Taiwanese universities - it is apparently new to the foreign instructors who had always been members of the ELC.
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just found out that the MOD EDIT you talk about is a MOD EDIT As far as I know, she used to be in charge of the ELC at Ming Chuan University with another Taiwanese lady, named MOD EDIT. I think the latter didn't have an MA in an English-related area. Actually the reason both ladies occupies their positions of power, were because they'd been in the system for a while and the university couldn't oust them. It seems that Taiwanese law sometimes protects mediocrity. BTW, I think MOD EDIT is now working with the MCU admin on getting accredited.

You mention another guy named MOD EDIT. My contact knows little about him, except that he's British, holds a Ph.d, and used to work close with President Lee. Apparently, MOD EDIT, like many before him, had a falling out with the President, and promptly resigned. Perhaps the falling out was related to the new economic measures which often penalise teachers . . . and Simon was caught between a rock and a hardplace?
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Mr. Kalgukshi
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Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please do not use real names of individuals in your postings. If they continue, the thread will be unavailable and sanctions will be issued.
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forest1979



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 507
Location: SE Asia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some very misleading info in this thread.

The lady with a degree in nutrition did not leave because of a new economic plan and her degree not fitting in. What rubbish. She left because she is a devout christian, had a calling and joined a mission.

And rubbish too about the threat of her being fired. The entire ELC relied on her because as a fluent Chinese speaker/reader she was able, as an Assistant to the President, to show how valuable EFL as a foreign language was and how unique MCU was for being Taiwan's only uni to teach english to non-language majors for four years.

Do teachers go out to Taoyuan twice a week? Check their timetables it's online. People go ONCE a week to the provincial campus.

Buses, worker rights and dismissals - please explain. Facts would be most welcome to inform everyone of this situation.

SS and his blog - I'd hardly called self-opionated rants publishable activities. He like countless other foreigners in Taiwan suffers from the big fish small pond complex in believing just how important they are in Taiwan. The reality is they are employed in a system where they are indeed insignificant. However I am sure SS will fly through his PhD studies avoiding all the problems foreigners previously have had. Afterall he knows best. Obviously getting a PhD from a Taiwanese uni means he will stay on the island until his retirement. It wont do him much good if he plans to work overseas.
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted twice.

Last edited by romanworld on Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

forest1979 wrote:
There's some very misleading info in this thread.


All that has been posted here is fact.

Quote:
The lady with a degree in nutrition did not leave because of a new economic plan and her degree not fitting in. What rubbish. She left because she is a devout christian, had a calling and joined a mission.


The lady with the degree in nutrition is still employed at MCU and is working with the President, helping MCU get accreditation. She does Missionary work on the side.

Quote:
And rubbish too about the threat of her being fired. The entire ELC relied on her because as a fluent Chinese speaker/reader she was able, as an Assistant to the President, to show how valuable EFL as a foreign language was and how unique MCU was for being Taiwan's only uni to teach english to non-language majors for four years.


It is true that this lady liased with the President and ELC, but she did feel the pressure to resign because she wasn't qualified. The new vice president speaks both English and Chinese(and holds a Ph.d), but doesn't do a very good job at liasing between the admin and the ELC, which is why 10+ teachers resigned last year, and around 5 at last count are planning on moving this year.

Quote:
Do teachers go out to Taoyuan twice a week? Check their timetables it's online. People go ONCE a week to the provincial campus.


Yes, they do. My friend goes out twice, and knows other teachers who are out there 3 times a week! The "two times to Taoyuan" policy was adopted into 'law' a few years back.

Quote:
Buses, worker rights and dismissals - please explain. Facts would be most welcome to inform everyone of this situation.


There have been no dismissals at MCU. According to the Teacher's Act, a university is not able to fire a teacher unless that teacher has committed a "severe violation". Nevertheless, pressure is put on teachers to perform better in the classroom, do more admin duties, and publish, and performances have started to be evaluated. If teachers fail, they are pressured to work harder for less money, or resign. Notice that I didn't say fire . . . I said resign. I say this because universities in Taiwan CANNOT fire you if you have successfully completed your probationary year, and then the renewal of contracts is just a formality.

Quote:
SS and his blog - I'd hardly called self-opionated rants publishable activities. He like countless other foreigners in Taiwan suffers from the big fish small pond complex in believing just how important they are in Taiwan. The reality is they are employed in a system where they are indeed insignificant.


Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
However I am sure SS will fly through his PhD studies avoiding all the problems foreigners previously have had. Afterall he knows best. Obviously getting a PhD from a Taiwanese uni means he will stay on the island until his retirement. It wont do him much good if he plans to work overseas.


SS is stuck in Taiwan because he's married to a local and, as you say, with his qualifications, he won't be able to get work overseas.
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar Strength wrote:
. . . their ELC`s future is not all that certain either from what she`s told me. lots of foreign teachers being assigned to different departments. THey have been removed from the ELC and are now faculty in the Business Administraiton Dept. or the Educaiton Dept. or the Law Dept., etc.

have you heard of this before at Taiwanese universities - it is apparently new to the foreign instructors who had always been members of the ELC.


As mentioned above, universities in Taiwan CANNOT fire teachers if they have passed their 1-year probationary year unless they've committed a serious academic crime such as plagiarism or sexual harassment. Upon completion of the first year, the university is obligated to renew your contract automatically until you retire at 60, when you'll get a lump sum payout. If the university wants to close down an elc or make cut backs, it must either move faculty to another position in the university, or pay severance pay, which is the equivalent of 1 months pay for each year served. If there is any dispute by either party, the university must put together a hiring committee to hear the case. If either party is unhappy, the case will then go to the MOE, who'll make a judgement based on the LAW as it stands in the Teacher's Act and University Act.


Last edited by romanworld on Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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forest1979



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 507
Location: SE Asia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firing for plagiarism? Don't know how they will enact that when no one does any publishing.

The lady who ran the ELC is back because they probably failed in replacing her. When she left about 2 years ago they initially replaced her with three foreigners, one of whom has now left and joined a national uni. As for another one of the three he left and went overseas. Plus the lady asked to run the ELC at this time was nothing more than a secretary. She had no teaching skills, no classroom experience, and merely was an administrator, and a low level one at that who had no sway over higher level policy making. I can see the return of a certain individual as being imperative if the ELC is to survive because in management terms the past two years have been wayward, at best.

Trips to Taoyuan - From what I know some decide to go there because it's easier to teach at the provincial campus. The classrooms are bigger, people have space to work during office hours, the library is better - not great though - but better overall than the Taipei campus where the ELC offices have been moved from building to building of late, and classrooms miniscule.

Dismissals? True, no one has been fired but occassionally people have not had their one year contracts renewed.

Whereas once MCU was considered a decent place to work in the past years people have left in greater numbers due to the growth of certain underlying issues. Yes, transport might be one of them, a lack of possible extra teaching hours another, as is pressure to register for PhD courses and publish. But EFL centers never are still. People come and go annually irrespective of local circumstances, some to go back 'home' to study or work, others move onto better local places. However what is becoming apparent at MCU and other similar institutions is that the foreigners with PhDs are not forthcoming for job vacancies and a greater percentage of the staff are now locals. I can only see this trend increasing. As foreigners leave/resign then they will increasingly be replaced by locals, a larger number of whom now hold PhDs. Or leavers will simply not be replaced at all and ELC will be diminished in size.

Spot on about MCU trying to get accreditation. Whilst they have been shortlisted still nothing is guaranteed. If the process should fail then the uni needs to seriously look at itself and think of the money it has spent to pursue a dead horse. And even if accreditation is given it is still reliant on students from overseas coming to Taiwan, and lets be honest why the hell would anyone from the US or Europe leave there to be educated at a place like MCU when there are far better institutions at home and in other countries?
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romanworld



Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

forest1979 wrote:
Firing for plagiarism? Don't know how they will enact that when no one does any publishing.


Exactly.

Quote:
The lady who ran the ELC is back because they probably failed in replacing her. When she left about 2 years ago they initially replaced her with three foreigners, one of whom has now left and joined a national uni.


But she never left. They just moved her into a new admin position, ie, helping with accreditation. As I've said before, the university can't fire anyone who's been in the system for years and hasn't committed an immoral or unethical crime.

Quote:
Plus the lady asked to run the ELC at this time was nothing more than a secretary. She had no teaching skills, no classroom experience, and merely was an administrator, and a low level one at that who had no sway over higher level policy making.


Yes, just a secretary, but she had power over those under her in the ELC. I'm not even sure she's got an MA.

Quote:
Trips to Taoyuan - From what I know some decide to go there because it's easier to teach at the provincial campus. The classrooms are bigger, people have space to work during office hours, the library is better - not great though - but better overall than the Taipei campus where the ELC offices have been moved from building to building of late, and classrooms miniscule.


The bus ride is over an hour, some of the bus drives drive too fast, and the buses are old and need replacing. My friend travels twice a week to and from Taoyuan and he has to budget an extra unpaid 4 hours for it!

Quote:
Whereas once MCU was considered a decent place to work in the past years people have left in greater numbers due to the growth of certain underlying issues. Yes, transport might be one of them, a lack of possible extra teaching hours another, as is pressure to register for PhD courses and publish. But EFL centers never are still. People come and go annually irrespective of local circumstances, some to go back 'home' to study or work, others move onto better local places. However what is becoming apparent at MCU and other similar institutions is that the foreigners with PhDs are not forthcoming for job vacancies and a greater percentage of the staff are now locals. I can only see this trend increasing. As foreigners leave/resign then they will increasingly be replaced by locals, a larger number of whom now hold PhDs. Or leavers will simply not be replaced at all and ELC will be diminished in size.


All I know is that the admin want more and more work from you for less and less money. What sensible person would work more for less? Only those who are desperate and don't have other choices.

Quote:
Spot on about MCU trying to get accreditation. Whilst they have been shortlisted still nothing is guaranteed. If the process should fail then the uni needs to seriously look at itself and think of the money it has spent to pursue a dead horse. And even if accreditation is given it is still reliant on students from overseas coming to Taiwan, and lets be honest why the hell would anyone from the US or Europe leave there to be educated at a place like MCU when there are far better institutions at home and in other countries?


MCU definately should NOT get accreditation. If it does, then people will eventually question the credibility of the whole process. And yes, the new economic rationalists at MCU have made a serious error in assuming that students from the US will travel to Taiwan for a superlative education. As you say, there are far better institutions at home and in other countries.
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