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Citizenkane
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Xanadu
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 Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Linguist,
So far as I know Al Yamamah are not hiring right now.
Or rather - they are not hiring qualified teachers, preferring to avail of cut-price trainees from SIT 'graduate institute'. |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
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Yes, and then she will give you and the fellow recruits numbers and you will play a new reality show called "Saudi Idle" and compete for the positions. I understand a good knowledge of Hangman helps. |
How much would the losers have to pay to get out of there? |
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desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| rigel wrote: |
| desultude wrote: |
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Yes, and then she will give you and the fellow recruits numbers and you will play a new reality show called "Saudi Idle" and compete for the positions. I understand a good knowledge of Hangman helps. |
How much would the losers have to pay to get out of there? |
Probably three months' wages for breaking the contract. |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: |
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What if he didn't have that three-months of wages to give 'em? What then? Does he get put in the stockade in the town square for a month? How would they get blood from this stone? There must be a plan B easy-out in case this happens. That plan would no doubt be in place to keep Christina Amanpour away.
CNN vids of western teachers being flogged in the KSA wouldn't help recruiting much. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dear rigel,
Well, they could make you work three months for no pay, nada, zilch, zip, nothing.
Regards,
John |
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desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| rigel wrote: |
What if he didn't have that three-months of wages to give 'em? What then? Does he get put in the stockade in the town square for a month? How would they get blood from this stone? There must be a plan B easy-out in case this happens. That plan would no doubt be in place to keep Christina Amanpour away.
CNN vids of western teachers being flogged in the KSA wouldn't help recruiting much. |
You wouldn't be flogged, but Johnslat is correct, you would work out the terms of the contract. It happened to a friend of mine, and she had to work out her three months before she could go home to care for an ailing parent. She was paid, though, but she would not be leaving without either paying the contract (3 months' wages) or working the 3 months' notice period.
Saudi Arabia is a closed country and a police state. What your consider "rights" are little more than extravagant western individualistic pipe dreams. I personally saw two people go through the efforts to get out of country when they really needed to. One had his exit visa revoked and was turned back at the border. He fought it, but in the end he paid the 3 months' wages. The other worked out her contractual obligations. There were those who pulled runners very quietly in the dark of night. We were told by one (western) administrator that if you intended to leave, do not give notice, just leave. And don't breathe a word of it to anyone.
I had a friend who did this from Poland back when it was a closed country. He never said goodbye to his parents, or even his fiance. When the time came that he could run, he did. Don't think Saudi Arabia is much different! |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
You wouldn't be flogged, but Johnslat is correct, you would work out the terms of the contract. It happened to a friend of mine, and she had to work out her three months before she could go home to care for an ailing parent. She was paid, though, but she would not be leaving without either paying the contract (3 months' wages) or working the 3 months' notice period.
... |
Hold on, guys. I'm now confused here. I guess I'm making a wrong assumption. I, in my possibly errant thinking, believe that if you give a notice and work that notice period, you would be paid in full and not have to pay your masters a dime to get out of your indentured servitude.
You guys are saying here that it wouldn't matter. If someone wanted to leave tomorrow, he'd be SOL if he didn't have the buckweat to get out of the contract. He'd have to work those three months for free. But wouldn't that be the same as giving a notice and working the notice period? Just because a guy is broke means he has to work the notice period for free? I think not. Surely it's not this way. If you give the proper notice and work the period, you will get paid and will be able to leave at the end.
If one has to pay to get out of there even if he gives proper notice and works that period, forget it. I will never set foot in the sandy gulag. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| It depends whether the contract says she has to give three months notice or pay a three month penalty fee (if she had been given a housing allowance the latter is quite likely). |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that would make sense. The person would have to pay his/her rent during that period. But that wouldn't come close to two or three salary jacks. Contracts that I've read would want me to pay two and three months' salary if I bugged out in a hurry. But maybe they would have wanted me to pay that even if I weren't in a hurry. In that case, forget it. What a rip.
I need to find out all I can by next week. There are still some things I don't know about. Understand that I'm at the "sh*t or get off the pot" stage. I need to give people my decision on some jobs in the KSA. If I gotta pay to get out of there no matter if I give proper notice or not, the decision is made. |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear rigel,
Well, they could make you work three months for no pay, nada, zilch, zip, nothing.
Regards,
John |
John, I have to figure out/find out why they'd make one work for free when he gives proper notice. And works that period properly.
Surely they're not that callous in the KSA. Surely this isn't one of the 'catches'. Surely this isn't one of the dark secrets of that place.
If you give a three-months' notice, and work it diligently like you should, you should get paid for that period, as it would give your employer time to find your replacement. You shouldn't even have to pay for your housing unless you're obligated to by contract. Egad. The contract will actually matter in this case, after all I've been told about them not counting for shit there.
But who am I? Just a guy who wants straight answers. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Dear rigel,
"What if he didn't have that three-months of wages to give 'em?"
If it says in your contract (the Arabic, not the English version) that you can give EITHER "three months notice" OR pay then three months salary, then there's a good chance that giving three months notice would be acceptable.
"If someone wanted to leave tomorrow, he'd be SOL if he didn't have the buckweat to get out of the contract."
The confusion may be arising from this - you make it sound like the guy wants to leave right away. If he does and doesn't have the three months salary to give them, them he'd have to wait the three months from the time he gives notice.
Now all that is assuming that you have a reputable employer, one who actually will abide by the terms of the (Arabic) contract.
Regards,
John
Last edited by johnslat on Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rigel wrote: |
| desultude wrote: |
You wouldn't be flogged, but Johnslat is correct, you would work out the terms of the contract. It happened to a friend of mine, and she had to work out her three months before she could go home to care for an ailing parent. She was paid, though, but she would not be leaving without either paying the contract (3 months' wages) or working the 3 months' notice period.
... |
Hold on, guys. I'm now confused here. I guess I'm making a wrong assumption. I, in my possibly errant thinking, believe that if you give a notice and work that notice period, you would be paid in full and not have to pay your masters a dime to get out of your indentured servitude.
You guys are saying here that it wouldn't matter. If someone wanted to leave tomorrow, he'd be SOL if he didn't have the buckweat to get out of the contract. He'd have to work those three months for free. But wouldn't that be the same as giving a notice and working the notice period? Just because a guy is broke means he has to work the notice period for free? I think not. Surely it's not this way. If you give the proper notice and work the period, you will get paid and will be able to leave at the end.
If one has to pay to get out of there even if he gives proper notice and works that period, forget it. I will never set foot in the sandy gulag. |
I said she had to either pay the money and leave, or work the three months. She got paid for the three months she worked.
But you have the right idea- it is a "sandy gulag"- just sometimes, if you are lucky, a well paid one. |
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rigel
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear rigel,
Well, they could make you work three months for no pay, nada, zilch, zip, nothing.
Regards,
John
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear rigel,
"What if he didn't have that three-months of wages to give 'em?"
If it says in your contract (the Arabic, not the English version) that you can give EITHER "three months notice" OR pay then three months salary, then there's a good chance that giving three months notice would be acceptable.
"If someone wanted to leave tomorrow, he'd be SOL if he didn't have the buckweat to get out of the contract."
The confusion may be arising from this - you make it sound like the guy wants to leave right away. If he does and doesn't have the three months salary to give them, them he'd have to wait the three months from the time he gives notice.
Now all that is assuming that you have a reputable employer, one who actually will abide by the terms of the (Arabic) contract.
Regards,
John |
That clears it up. Your earlier post made it sound as if one would be working for free for the notice period, even though the notice would have been given. Absolutely no way in holy hell will I go to the KSA if this is true. |
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Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Absolutely no way in holy hell will I go to the KSA if this is true. |
Rigel, no offense meant, but there is no way in holy hell that you SHOULD go to KSA anyway. From your posts, it is abundantly evident that you're not the right type to work in the Kingdom. Save yourself some misery and just drop the whole idea. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Dear rigel,
"Absolutely no way in holy hell will I go to the KSA if this is true."
Ah, truth - that commodity in the Kingdom can attain a remarkable fluidity; hence something can be "true" in one place yet "false" in another.
To reference Francis Bacon:
"What is truth? said jesting Pilate; and would not stay for an answer."
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/bacon/bacon_essays.html
Regards,
John |
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