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killian
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 937
Location: fairmont city, illinois, USA
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 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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again, i don't believe the problems i have encountered are exceptional. the only other foreign teacher i still actually know here (everyone else has quickly rotated out) has stories that'll curl your nails. came here, rented an unfurnished room from her boss for for 10,000 NT a month. the boss got her to pay six months rent in advance. the young lass sets to work. isn't paid the first month, isn't paid the second month. come payday of her third month...the school closes and the boss runs away. the girl contacts the police. they shrug. this young woman has earned what in her first three months in taiwan? she was paid $0 US for three months full-time work and the boss overcharged her for housing.
why don't more horror stories such as this come to light? for one, the most popular forum (tealit.com)is heavily moderated so as to snuff out any dissent. secondly, who ya gona cry to? anyone who has been here any amount of time can regale you stories of redundant government bureaus who require contradictory stipulations. trying to call the COLA ususally results in an automated menu entirely in chinese. even if such stories do come to light they are dismissed by taiwan apologists as disgruntled hands trying to muddy the waters. yes, stories such as hers should be in newspapers; curiously in taiwan the newspapers are much more eager to print stories that leave foreigners in a negative light...ala chocolate (in taiwan 16yearsand gets deported for being sick) than stories that will tarnish taiwan's international image.
i only met her after all the aforementioned went down. now she is studying chinese and teaching (as permitted bylaw) in her spare time. she just got a cellphone and is starting to recoup (finally) some of her initial outlay to come to taiwan.
work in a chain school? answer me this- what is the starting hourly pay at hess? |
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Mozilla
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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work in a chain school? answer me this- what is the starting hourly pay at hess?
It is officially 550 an hour, however if you factor in the travel time, the prep time, and the time spent grading tests and homework (unpaid) as well as the taxes it works out to roughly 300 an hour..[/i] |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| killian wrote: |
| came here, rented an unfurnished room from her boss for for 10,000 NT a month. the boss got her to pay six months rent in advance. the young lass sets to work. isn't paid the first month, isn't paid the second month. come payday of her third month...the school closes and the boss runs away. the girl contacts the police. they shrug. this young woman has earned what in her first three months in taiwan? she was paid $0 US for three months full-time work and the boss overcharged her for housing. |
I have to factor in that this girl was new to the country and possibly a recent college graduate with no real life experience, but even so, had she done a few hours worth of research on a site like this or segue she would have realized that:
a. It isn�t generally a very good idea to live in accommodation supplied by nor arranged by the school. Take advantage of any stipend offered, take advantage of any assistance they can offer in helping you find a place for yourself, but shy away from properties introduced to you by schools. They often have either a vested interest in the property or know the landlord who may then keep tabs on you.
b. Rent of NTD10,000 for an unfurnished room even in Taipei is very high. For this price you would generally expect a fully furnished studio apartment.
c. When you rent a place the standard payment is a two month security deposit, plus the first months rent in advance (plus one month payment to the agent if you have used one)
d. Not getting paid your salary is not something that is acceptable. Don�t hang around under these circumstances, find another job.
From the description that you have given it seems very unlikely that this girl was working for a chain school. Was she? It seems more likely that she was working with a little independent. As I have been saying all along, this is where you are more likely to encounter problems such as the above. Newbies are well advised to minimize the chances of the above problems by working within a chain school until they establish themselves here. By your own account, killian, you are established here yet have still faced problems with the last three employers that you have had. Were they chains or small independents? If they were independents and someone who has been here for as long as you can�t spot the good from the bad, then it is hardly surprising that so many newbies have unpleasant experiences.
| killian wrote: |
| why don't more horror stories such as this come to light? for one, the most popular forum (tealit.com)is heavily moderated so as to snuff out any dissent. secondly, who ya gona cry to? anyone who has been here any amount of time can regale you stories of redundant government bureaus who require contradictory stipulations. |
Disagree. The best forum by far for anyone seeking advice on these matters is www.segue.com.tw. A non-commercial site run by foreigners, it has a wealth of experienced individuals on it, who regularly dish out accurate, up to date, and very useful advice. As that site will attest, and I can too from personal experience, there are avenues of appeal available for legal teachers who have been ripped off. These are FREE of charge, and in most cases can be done entirely in English. They are also binding. As with any such official mediation, you need to prove your case, generally through documentation (such as your contract, pay slips etc.) My best guess is that the individuals who �regale stories of redundant government bureaus�, either haven�t had any personal experience in making claims against an employer, or were unable to supply any documentation to show that there was in fact a case to be had. As you are espousing the deficiencies in the system do you care to outline your own personal experiences in this regard? What action did you take against previous employers that wronged you? I know that the system is certainly not perfect but if you have been legitimately wronged then it can work for you.
| killian wrote: |
| Work in a chain school? answer me this- what is the starting hourly pay at hess? |
I don�t know as I have never worked for Hess. The average starting hourly pay at chain schools however seems to be much higher than the independents that you and your friend work for, as you actually get paid by chains. I mean what is the point of accepting a job offering NTD650-800 an hour if you don�t get paid.
It always amazes me how people with no credentials to teach, no teaching experience, and nothing to offer the school other than the fact that they are a native English speaker (I know that this isn�t you killian � just a general observation), expect that they can land a top paying job when they first arrive here. Don�t get me wrong, I am not begrudging them the right to try or the luck that they may have in landing a plum job (I am happy with the work that I do and am therefore not in the job market). The thing that I find difficult to understand is, don�t they realize that there is often a reason that a school is willing to pay them more than the market average, even though that individual has really nothing above average to offer. It stands to reason that a good employer won�t generally overpay their staff. Sure, bonuses and raises and the like can be great incentives to work, but offering a high fixed wage to an individual when there are surely other more qualified applicants would make me a little suspicious.
It is becoming more and more apparent to me that the individuals that seem to be getting ripped off and landing in undesirable jobs are the ones that put the almighty dollar first. Kind of like the carrot waved in front of the donkey. There is a lot more to teaching jobs than just the money. I wouldn�t recommend that anyone accept a job offering less than NTD550 an hour to a foreigner (take care here with salary positions � as when you do your calculations you may find that a job offering NTD65,000 a month for full time work may not prove to be as lucrative as you first thought). However, make sure that regardless of the rate of pay, ensure that you are landing a profitable job. Here is an example of what I mean:
School A�Offers NT$550 per hour
Four teaching hours a day (1:30-5:30) = NT$2200
Total time at school (4 teaching hours)
Works out at NT$550 per hour
School B�Offers NT$650 per hour
Four teaching hours a day (1:30-3:30, 4:30-6:30) = NT$2600
Total time at school (4 teaching hours + 1 hour break = 5 hours)
Works out at NT$520 per hour
If you are experienced or qualified then you may be able to work for a school with little support or negotiate a higher rate of pay. If you are a newbie then you probably best go for a school that will support you as you struggle through the early months, with a team of other foreign teachers around you. Sure, chains are not for every one, but no one has been able to show any evidence that chains rip teachers off in the way that many have shown that small independents may. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| So...I take it that this thread has shifted focus to the issue of chain versus small schools. I'm still waiting for compelling evidence to support the too frequent advice that working without legal status is better than an arc... |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Now that you are back on this thread Aristotle, why not answer TaoyuanSteve's question as to how exactly teachers are better off making the decision to work illegally as opposed to legally? This is something that you have suggested repeatedly but never substantiated. Now's the time. |
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Mozilla
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Now that you are back on this thread Aristotle, why not answer TaoyuanSteve's question as to how exactly teachers are better off making the decision to work illegally as opposed to legally? This is something that you have suggested repeatedly but never substantiated. Now's the time.
I personally know of 3 people that have been screwed over by their ARC schools--this month alone. These three were forced to work under horrendous conditions and told directly that if they didn't like it, they can kiss their ARC goodbye. Two of them did tell the boss off and the following week had their ARCs revoked.
I also know of several others who told their boss to 'piss off' when they were bullied into doing unpaid/ridiculous work. (Having unpaid parent-teacher conferences on weekends/attending school plays & helping create the set and stages). The boss was pissed off, but what can he/she do?
Just my $.02NT |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Mozilla wrote: |
| I personally know of 3 people that have been screwed over by their ARC schools--this month alone. These three were forced to work under horrendous conditions and told directly that if they didn't like it, they can kiss their ARC goodbye. |
See this is exactly the sort of perception that I am talking about. Just because you don't agree with your boss or the way that the school is run, that doesn't mean that you are being screwed over. I assume that the people that you refer to above signed teaching contracts not contracts as business advisors or managers. If so then they were employed to teach. They certainly have a right to make suggestions if they feel that those suggestions are warranted, but should the boss choose not to take those suggestions then that is the end of the matter. Sometimes the advice given would be well heeded, at other times it is misguided and made without knowledge of all the facts. Either way it is the bosses school not yours.
Do you care to enlighten us all as to what 'horrendous conditions' entails? Seems that they may have been actually required to do some work - heaven forbid!!!
I would like to guess that the bosses version of events in the case that you have referred to above is quite different from the version your friends gave to you. More than likely it was along the lines of 'if you don't like the way things are run around here you are free to leave, but you will lose your ARC with us if you do'. Whatever the words or tone that were used the message remains the same - the school sponsors your visa for you to live in Taiwan, and in return they expect you to work for them, not argue with them.
Should conditions be intolerable, you are free to leave at any time. If you are wise you will not argue the point, will give notice of at least two weeks that you need to return home, leave the country, come back in on a new visa without telling your previous boss that you have done so, and start the process over again.
| Mozilla wrote: |
Two of them did tell the boss off and the following week had their ARCs revoked.
I also know of several others who told their boss to 'piss off' when they were bullied into doing unpaid/ridiculous work. (Having unpaid parent-teacher conferences on weekends/attending school plays & helping create the set and stages). The boss was pissed off, but what can he/she do? |
Let me get this right. They verbally abused the boss, showed contempt for the boss and the school, refused to do what was asked of them (possibly stuff that was contained in their contract of employment) - and for this the boss cancelled their ARC. Well, of course. What would you do if you were the boss?
The immaturity of these individuals and others like them that have come before, is largely the reason that schools are becoming more strict in their hiring. These individuals didn't solve any problems, they just created more for themselves and gave the rest of us foreigners a bad name at the same time.
Back home, I bet that they wouldn't have dared treat an employer with such contempt. Why not? Well, most likely because they would be fearful of how this would affect any future job applications that they may make. It is unfortunate that some feel that they can come here and treat their jobs in such a disposable fashion. It is no wonder why schools act the way that they do.
It is stories like this one that make me embarrassed at times to be a foreigner in Taiwan. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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This doesn't qualify as evidence of any sort, only mudslinging. Please provide real evidence to support your stances. It's not enough to make unsubstantiated claims. Back up what you say. As for the ignorant claim, same to you. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:20 am Post subject: |
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I apologize for the insult but when you ask for proof then refuse to acknowledge the overwhelming evidence from so many teachers on Taiwan.... I suppose naive would be a better term.
People don't post negative experiences for fun. Even if some did they would have to be typing 24/7 to file up so much bandwidth.
We here at SSETT actively attempt to confirm any and all complaints that come to our attention. More often than not the situation is much worse than the poster has stated in the original message.
If you really want to find out take a look for yourself the evidence is as close as your nearest telephone.
A. |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Aristotle, this is what you keep saying, but you have never actually shown any evidence of any of this. We are all familiar with the complaints made on boards such as these. Some of them are legitimate, others are just rants, and others still are made out of malice. Despite all of this there is no doubt that some teachers do get ripped off and treated badlt here in Taiwan. These are however the minority, and to suggest otherwise is just illogical. I mean there must have been around 3-4,000 foreign teachers who arrived in Taiwan in the last year or so alone. Despite all of this, only about half a dozen complaints about schools are made each month - which is less than 100 per year. Even assuming that only half the teachers who encounter problems may complain about these problems, that would mean that around 5% of newbies encounter problems. This falls well short of the accusations that your SSET makes - that the majority of newbies will encounter problems.
None of this answers the question that TaoyuanSteve has asked, so I will ask it again.
How exactly are teachers who choose to work illegally, better off than teachers that choose to work legally? |
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EOD
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 167
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:15 am Post subject: |
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For me it is the money. I make on average about 100,000 Nt. per month. If I had an employer sponsored work permit I would be paying between 13,000 and 20,000 a month in Taxes.
Over a three month period that comes to 39,000 to 60,000 paid in Taxes. Now I don't think I am cheap but I have never spent that much on a visa run. 10,000 to 15,000 is about average for me. I stay in a decent hotel and would have a nice weekend abroad. That includes shopping and eating well.
I have been a resident of Taiwan long before foreigners were allowed to be, so those elusive benefits offered don't really appeal to me and they seldom materialise at any rate.
Last year I spent about 2000NT in medical expenses, that's a little more than usual for me but I am getting older. Health insurance cost between 1000Nt to 2000nt per month. That's 12,000NT. to 24,000NT. per year.
If I don't stay in Taiwan for more than 90 days I don't need a R.O.C. drivers license. My international license has always worked great.
I now have an APRC and open work permit but the more I look at it I might be better off just making those visa runs. In all the years I was working without goverment permission I had no more or less problems than I do now. I just made a lot more money.
I work with several illegal teachers and they all take home more than I do, none of them have had any problems outside of just being a foreigner in Taiwan. |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Finally an anwser to this question that has been around for ages, and a very comprehensive answer at that. Thanks for taking the time EOD. I think that your experience is a very valuable one and shows the positive side to working illegally. I don't want to nit-pick, but I would like to address some of the experiences that you have relayed.
| EOD wrote: |
| For me it is the money. I make on average about 100,000 Nt. per month. If I had an employer sponsored work permit I would be paying between 13,000 and 20,000 a month in Taxes. Over a three month period that comes to 39,000 to 60,000 paid in Taxes. |
I think that this stands out as being the big drawcard for working illegally. No one, even back home, seems to like paying taxes, but alas they are necessary evil of modern society. I know people working illegally in chains that earn the same money after taxes. On a day to day basis the fact that you are not paying taxes isn't really of any consequence. I think that over the long term it must weigh on one's mind though. It is a personal thing no doubt, but I would be concerned that I would get caught. My understanding that the penalty payable on top of the payment of the outstanding tax is something like three times the amount not paid. For me, I would prefer to just do the right thing and then not have to worry about it. I pay 6% on what I earn which is far less than the 30% odd that I would need to pay back home. It is my choice to be here in Taiwan and I would feel guilty if I wasn't doing the right thing by the people here.
| EOD wrote: |
| Now I don't think I am cheap but I have never spent that much on a visa run. 10,000 to 15,000 is about average for me. I stay in a decent hotel and would have a nice weekend abroad. That includes shopping and eating well. |
Surely you would need to add to this the cost of time off work without pay, airport transfers and all the little expenses that are incurred when one travels. All these might add about 20% to the costs outlined above.
I know that my main concern would be the fact that I could be refused re-entry at any time without any explanation. I hate the idea of not being able to come back and tie up lose ends.
| EOD wrote: |
| Last year I spent about 2000NT in medical expenses, that's a little more than usual for me but I am getting older. Health insurance cost between 1000Nt to 2000nt per month. That's 12,000NT. to 24,000NT. per year. |
My guess is that this amount would be pretty representative of what most foreigners here in Taiwan would spend. Most are in their twenties and thirties and are therefore not likely to be spending a fortune on medical. The real concern is of course accidents (which are pretty inevitable considering the traffic here and the fact that most of us get around on scooters), and of course the unepxected like SARS. Provided that all remains well you would definitely be better off not having to pay for insurance, but it would only take one little incident to change the situation such that you wished you had been insured. Considering that your employer covers the bulk of the insurance and you would only need pay about NTD400-600 per month on a wage of MTD100,000 a month, it seems pretty silly not to get it if you can. The option would be to get some form of insurance back home, but the exclusions may nullify the value of this in Taiwan. Why would you want to pay the full premium though when in Taiwan the government and your employer cover upwards of 70%? I guess that insurance and only becomes valuable when you really need it.
| EOD wrote: |
| I work with several illegal teachers and they all take home more than I do, none of them have had any problems outside of just being a foreigner in Taiwan. |
Well I can't argue that, and am sure that it is true. I have worked with dozens of teachers over the years, almost all of whom were legal. They never had any problems either.
It seems to me that it all comes down to the 'what if'. What if you get into an accident? What if your school gets raided? What if you have a traffic accident? What if someone picks a fight with you on the street or the neighbors complain about your music? What if on your next visa run you get refused a re-entry? Isn't the intrinsic value of knowing that you are fully legal and protected by your employer and the law, far more valuable than any of the positives mentioned above. I think so, but others may have different opinions. |
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EOD
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 167
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:53 am Post subject: |
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I think the western idea of paying taxes is a little different from the eastern one. As an American I am given a tax exemption of upwards of 80,000US if I work outside the country for more than 9 months a year. In Taiwan I am not required to pay any taxes if I am on a visitors visa and have been in the R.O.C. for under 90 days.
Believe it or not you don't have to pay taxes even if you are arrested and deported for working illegally in Taiwan. That is so long as you stay within the tax code specifications.
I have known many legal teachers and business people over the years that have been nailed hard with taxes in Taiwan. I have never known any foreign visitor that has had that problem, teachers or businesspeople .
Medical care is so cheap in Taiwan that it will not break you with or without insurance. When my first son was born her we didn't have insurance. He was born C section and my wife stayed in the hospital for a week. It all cost just under 1000US dollars. It would cost 10 to 20 times that in the US. If you are only paying 400 to 500 a month for your NHIC chances are, you are not insured.
As for taking time off work one of the benefits of working illegally is that I am always paid by the hour. I don't work weekends because I don't want to.
It is actually cheaper for me to fly down to Boracay for the weekend than it is for me t o go to Kenting or Penghu. I have never met a business person that has been refused entry at the airport. I have known many legal teachers that have been.
There have been three generations of my family doing business on this island. Some of us were teachers some of us are legitimate business people. Our visa's however always state the same purpose, business and none of us has ever had a problem coming or going.
I am the first member of a Jewish American family to have a legal residence status here. My family has been doing "business" and teaching here for over 30 years.
Yes. It is easier having an APRC, but I had to take a pay cut to get it. |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:27 am Post subject: |
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EOD, I am aware that you have been around for a while and that your experiences are a valuable account of the positive side of working illegally. I am sure that you are not the only one that has had the positive experiences that you have had working illegally, and I am equally sure that others will happily continue to work illegally in the future. What I don't understand is how anyone could suggest that people are better off working illegally here than legally. I think that you have clearly laid out the positives of your case, but what about the negatives. Let�s discuss this in the terms of a newbie or someone who would otherwise get an ARC, as your APRC status just complicates things.
Firstly, just in case there is any uncertainty here, your suggestion to work here as a teacher on a business visa is illegal. I realize that you have stated this, but I just wanted to make that clear for anyone who is reading this and isn�t quite sure.
Taiwan Immigration Authority
http://www.immigration.gov.tw/e_immig/eng/4.htm
Article 17
Aliens may be banned from entering the State if they:
5. Have made a false statement or hidden important facts about their purposes to apply for entry into the State; or
12. Have overstayed their visits or residence or have worked illegally; or
Article 27
Aliens who are visiting or residing in the State may not engage in activities or employment that are different from the purposes of their visits or residence.
Article 34
Aliens may be forcibly deported if they:
5. Have violated Article 27 by engaging in employment or activities that are different from the purposes of their visits, or residence; or
| EOD wrote: |
| In Taiwan I am not required to pay any taxes if I am on a visitors visa and have been in the R.O.C. for under 90 days. Believe it or not you don't have to pay taxes even if you are arrested and deported for working illegally in Taiwan. That is so long as you stay within the tax code specifications. |
According to the Taiwan tax regulations you do in fact need to be paying taxes on income earned here in Taiwan. This is just logical. If you are here for less than 90 days then your employer should be deducting 20% from your wages directly. What you don't need to do if you have been here for less than 90 days is you don't need to lodge a return, as you aren't entitled to any refund. This is obviously aimed at business travelers who come here and do short term business such as a trade show etc.
National Tax Administration
http://www.ntak.gov.tw//ntak-eng/service/guide_05.asp
http://www.ntak.gov.tw//ntak-eng/service/guide_15.asp
If you were caught working illegally at the kindergarten that you work at, and if the tax authorities became involved, I can guarantee that you would be required to pay the back taxes. A simple look at your passport to see how many days you were here each year, times an average wage that the tax office determines to be your income (in the absence of any other documentation that the school may be required to provide them) will be the tax amount that you owe. A penalty of three times this amount would then be added to this amount.
National Tax Administration
http://www.ntak.gov.tw//ntak-eng/service/guide_22.asp
According to the immigration policies of Taiwan, you could be prohibited from leaving Taiwan until these overdue taxes were paid. It seems that you also run the added risk of incarceration until overdue taxes and penalties have been paid.
Article 20
Aliens shall be banned from exiting the State if they:
2. Have been banned from exiting the State at the request of a tax authority.
Article 36
Aliens may be subject to mandatory detention if they:
1. Are to be deported as a penalty but have not yet completed the procedure for exiting the State; or
http://www.immigration.gov.tw/e_immig/eng/4.htm
I concede that you may know �how to play the game� and that you are in a comfort zone. I feel however that it is a bit irresponsible, particularly considering that you are a moderator on a board that has a posting policy of not encouraging illegal activities, to suggest that working illegally in Taiwan is in the best interests of others. Whichever way you look at it, it is illegal and immoral.
| EOD wrote: |
| I have known many legal teachers and business people over the years that have been nailed hard with taxes in Taiwan. I have never known any foreign visitor that has had that problem, teachers or businesspeople. |
I don�t doubt that this is the case, but it doesn�t take away from the fact that what you are suggesting is illegal. If you are caught you will have to pay the penalties and you will be asked to leave Taiwan. It is surely irresponsible to portray working illegally as a good bet based upon the experiences of others.
| EOD wrote: |
| Medical care is so cheap in Taiwan that it will not break you with or without insurance. |
Yes, medical care is cheap here in Taiwan compared to other countries, but as I said previously it is the �what if�. This is what insurance is based upon, �the what if� factor, and this is why medical insurance is compulsory for employees in Taiwan. Things do happen. I recall the story of a foreign girl who required extensive hospitalization after the 921 earthquake. Unexpected sure! Unfortunate sure! But the costs of this treatment would have far exceeded any premium that she was paying. Sure many live here for years and never have a problem. Others aren�t so fortunate.
| EOD wrote: |
| If you are only paying 400 to 500 a month for your NHIC chances are, you are not insured. |
I am fully insured, have my new IC card and have used it without difficulty. Premiums are very low considering the fact that the employer covers the bulk of the cost, and the government chips in too.
Bureau of National Health Insurance
http://www.nhi.gov.tw/00english/e_index.htm
| EOD wrote: |
| As for taking time off work one of the benefits of working illegally is that I am always paid by the hour. |
This is exactly what I am talking about. You are paid by the hour and therefore if you don�t work, you don�t get paid. So if you spend time off work traveling, you don�t get paid for this time. By the way, the majority of legal teachers work here on an hourly basis, hourly jobs are not only restricted to illegal positions.
| EOD wrote: |
| I have never met a business person that has been refused entry at the airport. |
Of course it would be very difficult for the authorities to spot a legitimate business person from an illegal teacher on a business visa. I concede this, but am trying to make the point that each time you leave the country there is a chance that you won�t get back in.
| EOD wrote: |
| I have known many legal teachers that have been. |
For what? If they were legal here, what were they refused re-entry for? |
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