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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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 Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:09 am Post subject: |
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I must agree with shmooj - the classroom setting is artificial, not really conducive to a genuine dialogue between the teacher and his or her charges. And often, students wait for one of their own peers to raise their hand to ask a question that everybody has on their mind; since no one wants to be the one to demonstrate so blatantly that they have a gap no one will do it.
I think, however, the East Asian cultures reinforce the problem of lack of self-confidence through their communitarian lifestyles and classroom life. Just ask any of our Chinese teachers whether they find large classes to be problematic; they won't. In fact they feel it's ideal.
Having said this, my most annoying experiences often are those students who actually do come to ask me questions - dfuring break times! |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:43 am Post subject: Teachers do it with class |
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Dear Roger,
Good point - that last:
"Having said this, my most annoying experiences often are those students who actually do come to ask me questions - during break times!"
I'd have students come up to me with questions AFTER the class on many occasions. I'd answer them, but then explain why I preferred their asking the questions during class: so that everyone could have the chance to get something from the question and the answer. And then I'd gently remind them that I wasn't a private tutor.
Regards,
John |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Johnslat - how about this:
Student comes after class and asks question.
You note it down, thank them and tell them you will give them an answer next week.
You do your homework and, next class, stand up and say: "Someone had a very good question last week."
Without mentioning who asked it of course, put the question on the board, on handouts on the OHP whatever.
Have them work on it for a few minutes together to try to come up with an answer themselves.
Get some feedback from a few pairs/groups/individuals/whatever.
Give them the conclusive "answer" to the original questions.
Finish by welcoming more questions at any time either during or after class. |
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Atlas
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 662
Location: By-the-Sea PRC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Canuck2112 wrote:
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If the roles were reversed...if I were sitting at that rickety circa 1942 folding table watching some science graduate trying to teach me English, my line of thinking would be "I'm paying for your Gaijin a$$ to be here...I'm paying to be taught English, and you're going to clarify this point for me". Again, that's me.
This face saving thing may be a part of the culture, and since I'm here I'll accept it, but people (the world over, not just in Japan) should stop caring so much about what other people think of them. |
and Roger wrote:
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I think, however, the East Asian cultures reinforce the problem of lack of self-confidence through their communitarian lifestyles and classroom life. Just ask any of our Chinese teachers whether they find large classes to be problematic; they won't. In fact they feel it's ideal. |
It's the difference between a self-actualized learning approach, where achievement is gained only through personal accountability or merit, and the diffused responsibility of collectivism, where group conformity is reinforced--no one wants to stand up and rock the boat.
In language classes I have taken at university, I seem to remember quite a lot of lack of enthusiasm (but questions, certainly), and only one or two students who actually broke through the fear and actually tried communicating in the foreign languages at the lower intermediate level. Most other students participated in English, though performed well enough. (If you want to consider the language level, remember that the western students could actually apply their limited knowledge, and to me that makes all the difference. I tell my students now I'd rather they knew 300 words and use them, than 3000 words and say nothing, ever. Learning is in the use, and that's the truth Ruth. You have to use a word something like 5-15 times before it sets into longterm memory).
So, on top of normal class reticence and inertia, we add group face, and if you disrupt it you'd better have something pertinent to say--and even if you do, you are likely to second-guess it until the time has passed.
One student told me, the thought running through most of their minds is "don't pick me don't pick me don't pick me" --so no surprise they have nothing to volunteer.
A cultural condition? Groups are more effective when having to generate information, but less effective with decisive action or subjective criteria. Individuals work less in a group metality, and certainly a lot of students (who grow into working adults in relationships) are more adept at playing the blame game than actualizing their personal power. (Maybe self-actualization is a cultural value, but does anyone besides me think it is a great bias to have?) In one of my schools, the prevailing mentality appears to be "everybody passes so don't be a difficult teacher". Face: appearances are more important than results. Social lubrication, and a dirty, greasy machine.
When you are in a taxi and you don't understand half the things the driver is saying, and he/she doesn't understand half of what you say, you don't interrupt each other, you try to guess from context. This is known as the "Let it pass" phenomenon.
That's what our students are doing (in China). It's often a game of minimal personal effort, and it's easy to see the results in the slapdash, haphazard organization of the society. I doubt we could or should change these societies unless they wanted to change, and even then change would be limited by incompetence and woodenheadedness. But we can change our expectations that they are or will become self-actualized learners, until they get a little older and realize that their job depends on it, and enroll in one of the flourishing "language mills".
I know i'm talking too much, but let me add that smaller groups are easier to interact in and elicit participation and even conversation. If class is 15 people or more, that precious personal license goes up in smoke. |
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Dr.J
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 304
Location: usually Japan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:28 am Post subject: |
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I felt very similar to the OP once. It's like:
student: "I want a hamburger."
teacher: "OK, here's some money, go and buy one."
student: "No."
teacher: "What?! Why not?"
student: "I want you to buy it, then chew it for me, then spit it out and feed it to me using a drip while I sleep. But I don't like needles so be careful or I'll complain and get you fired."
But like everyone is saying it's the culture so you get used to it. It just takes more effort to teach. Some tactics that might help are; group drills (helps to get them comfortable saying something), constant spoken routine (works best with kids), small group work, and making it as real as possible. Also, don't hate the students or else you may as well quit your job! |
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