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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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 Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| brian wrote: |
As usual Okami is correct. These changes have been spoken about at some length by those who are most affected by them - the owners and managers of schools. Many teachers don't have direct exposure to this sort of information, and often the first that we find out about it is when problems occcur, such as work permits getting refused unexpectedly. Some have suggested that this is because a BA degree is no longer adequate. The real reason though seems to be because the school that you are applying through has already reached their quota. If they haven't been keeping abreast of changes then they too may misunderstand the rejection, not realizing that their previous quota of teachers has recently been reduced. They then mistakenly pass on the word to teachers that their application was rejected because of some other problem.
It just goes to show how quickly knowledge of what goes on in Taiwan becomes outdated, once one is no longer directly involved in the industry. Surely, individuals who post 'information' on this board should ensure that their knowledge has not become redundant, before they post it. This seems reasonable doesn't it! |
what part of Taiwan are you in, Brian? I am assuming Taipei. Being someone who has never worked in Taipei, but has worked elsewhere on the island, I can definately say that people in Taipei have it harder than people in other counties. They may well have to deal with quotas and other requirements. In Taichung, there were no quotas. I could find out pretty quickly (by e-mailing some people I know there now) whether there are quotas now, but I think I would be wasting my time. |
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Okami
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Posts: 121
Location: Sunny Sanxia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: |
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AAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH
What does it take to get something into your thick head Mr. Seeburn?
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| I could find out pretty quickly (by e-mailing some people I know there now) whether there are quotas now, but I think I would be wasting my time. |
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| I can't fathom the forward leap that would be necessary for the government (cough, LOL) of Taiwan to get itself organized enough to issue ARCs out of one place. The people who control Taichung hate the people in Taipei. Kaoshiung is run by gangsters. Taitung thinks it's a country. And of course the whole thing is dwarfed by China which claims the entire island as a province. So no I don't believe you that much. I just can't see the bigger countys bowing to Taipei like that. They wouldn't give up control to that extent. Especially giving the total joke that is the Taipei provisional government. |
With an attitude like that, you set yourself to look like an idiot. Like I wrote before, go to www.forumosa.com and check with some of the school owners and managers that post there. They are quite familiar with the process and this is a recent change as of January 2004.
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| From what I've been hearing, you get your ARC from the county where you live. That's the way it was when I was there anyway. |
You don't even live here and haven't lived here for sometime. When you did you didn't even stay a year. Can somebody please give Mr. Seeburn the title: Village idiot.
For those of you reading this. You can believe Mr. Seeburn and then find out when you come here how it really is or you can verify my information by way of forumosa.
CYA
Okami |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Okami wrote: |
AAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH
What does it take to get something into your thick head Mr. Seeburn?
| Quote: |
| I could find out pretty quickly (by e-mailing some people I know there now) whether there are quotas now, but I think I would be wasting my time. |
| Quote: |
| I can't fathom the forward leap that would be necessary for the government (cough, LOL) of Taiwan to get itself organized enough to issue ARCs out of one place. The people who control Taichung hate the people in Taipei. Kaoshiung is run by gangsters. Taitung thinks it's a country. And of course the whole thing is dwarfed by China which claims the entire island as a province. So no I don't believe you that much. I just can't see the bigger countys bowing to Taipei like that. They wouldn't give up control to that extent. Especially giving the total joke that is the Taipei provisional government. |
With an attitude like that, you set yourself to look like an idiot. Like I wrote before, go to www.forumosa.com and check with some of the school owners and managers that post there. They are quite familiar with the process and this is a recent change as of January 2004.
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| From what I've been hearing, you get your ARC from the county where you live. That's the way it was when I was there anyway. |
You don't even live here and haven't lived here for sometime. When you did you didn't even stay a year. Can somebody please give Mr. Seeburn the title: Village idiot.
For those of you reading this. You can believe Mr. Seeburn and then find out when you come here how it really is or you can verify my information by way of forumosa.
CYA
Okami |
Wow, this forum always impresses me with the ability of its members to fly off the handle and lose it at the slightest provocation. Would you believe someone who reacts like this every time someone disagrees with him? Your credibility is as shallow, as your temper is quick, Mr. Okami. You amuse me with your quick, pointless anger. I'm sure the counties are issuing ARCs themselves, just like they always have. I am also sure that a couple of guys from Taipei will have no idea that this is happening. |
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Anitata
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 42
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hello! I was working in one of the leading English kindergartens as headmaster in Taipei for few years. I was responsible to apply ARC and work permit for my teachers. It is always 'illegal' for kindergartens to hire foreign teachers, those big kindergartens like Hxxs and Jordxxxx have many Foreign teachers work for them with ARCs and Work permits because they are registered as 'language centers' not 'kindergartens'. The law is very tricky.....so I guess that working in a children language center is legal but 'kindergarten' is illegal. It is very difficult to explian to foreign teachers about the law and regulations of ARC and Work permit.....And many of the English teachers will not understand the difference between 'English language center' and 'kindergarten' so the job post are all advertise themselves as 'kindergartens'.....it is easy for the new comers to fıgure out the field of the job and the heavily caring responsibilities as the name suggested.
As the law that it is illegal to teach kids under six English, the law is just established and I am sure it is not affect the ones with ARC now, perhaps it will be hard for new comers to get them but there are always many ways around ..........The English teaching industry is huge and I cannot see the end of it yet......
Ask around before you accept a teaching post and there are nothing to worried about. Plenty jobs around!! |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Anitata wrote: |
Hello! I was working in one of the leading English kindergartens as headmaster in Taipei for few years. I was responsible to apply ARC and work permit for my teachers. It is always 'illegal' for kindergartens to hire foreign teachers, those big kindergartens like Hxxs and Jordxxxx have many Foreign teachers work for them with ARCs and Work permits because they are registered as 'language centers' not 'kindergartens'. The law is very tricky.....so I guess that working in a children language center is legal but 'kindergarten' is illegal. It is very difficult to explian to foreign teachers about the law and regulations of ARC and Work permit.....And many of the English teachers will not understand the difference between 'English language center' and 'kindergarten' so the job post are all advertise themselves as 'kindergartens'.....it is easy for the new comers to fıgure out the field of the job and the heavily caring responsibilities as the name suggested.
As the law that it is illegal to teach kids under six English, the law is just established and I am sure it is not affect the ones with ARC now, perhaps it will be hard for new comers to get them but there are always many ways around ..........The English teaching industry is huge and I cannot see the end of it yet......
Ask around before you accept a teaching post and there are nothing to worried about. Plenty jobs around!! |
That sounds more like the Taiwan that I remember. A great place to teach English, with ways around every law. Thanks Anitata |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| Wow, this forum always impresses me with the ability of its members to fly off the handle and lose it at the slightest provocation. |
Look back through some of the posts made a few months ago and all will see just who it is who flies off the handle and becomes insulting. I have tried to ignore these posts but they are once again just getting silly!
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| Would you believe someone who reacts like this every time someone disagrees with him? Your credibility is as shallow, as your temper is quick, Mr. Okami. |
Yes this about sums up the boards attitude towards you. Okami doesn't need your approval. He posts on what he knows and is able to support his claims. For goodness sake, why not just take up his suggestion and visit segue. You will soon see just how wrong you are. Go on! What are you afraid of?
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| I'm sure the counties are issuing ARCs themselves, just like they always have. I am also sure that a couple of guys from Taipei will have no idea that this is happening. |
Gut feelings can be dangerous. If however you have some proof of your claims then please feel free to support your claims. If not then you will understand why the readership goes with Okami's advice - which is factual and verifiable. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| brian wrote: |
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| Wow, this forum always impresses me with the ability of its members to fly off the handle and lose it at the slightest provocation. |
Look back through some of the posts made a few months ago and all will see just who it is who flies off the handle and becomes insulting. I have tried to ignore these posts but they are once again just getting silly!
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| Would you believe someone who reacts like this every time someone disagrees with him? Your credibility is as shallow, as your temper is quick, Mr. Okami. |
Yes this about sums up the boards attitude towards you. Okami doesn't need your approval. He posts on what he knows and is able to support his claims. For goodness sake, why not just take up his suggestion and visit segue. You will soon see just how wrong you are. Go on! What are you afraid of?
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| I'm sure the counties are issuing ARCs themselves, just like they always have. I am also sure that a couple of guys from Taipei will have no idea that this is happening. |
Gut feelings can be dangerous. If however you have some proof of your claims then please feel free to support your claims. If not then you will understand why the readership goes with Okami's advice - which is factual and verifiable. |
Neither of you two yahoos know a thing about the law on Taiwan. But you will argue, and argue, and argue. About quotas, and whatnot. Things that don't even exist in the complicated system that interlinks immigration and ESL schools. |
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Anitata
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 42
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, One thing I must tell you about being able to get an ARC and work permit in Taipei city. You must be a native speaker- from USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zeland, and South Africa. You must have a Bachelor degree in any fields. If you are holding a Bachelor degree and are from the country I mentioned above and apply a job in a right school - the language centers not kindergartens. And you pass the health check that you will have a work permit and ARC. There is nothing to worried about. The law is tricky but it is also easy if your boss know what documents he/she should prepare and the procedures. Its usually take 1 month for a new comer with tourist visa to get the leal work permit. Take it easy!! |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| Neither of you two yahoos know a thing about the law on Taiwan. But you will argue, and argue, and argue. About quotas, and whatnot. Things that don't even exist in the complicated system that interlinks immigration and ESL schools. |
Yeah, you go Jason.
So Okami, Taoyuan Steve, Aristotle, Killian, various others and myself are all ignorant, and you on the other hand know everything (even though you never support any of your remarks - other than saying 'I know it to be true because I believe that it is true'). This makes perfect sense. Yeah right!
The facts are:
 With exception of Killian (who left Taiwan recently after many years here) we all actually live here in Taiwan. - You don't.
We all have individual experiences ranging from I believe three to ten years or even more in Taiwan. - You don't.
We all have combined experiences of working legally, illegally, and everywhere between. - You haven't.
 You lived in a small town in the South Central Area of Taiwan for a nine month period almost one year ago now. You worked at one school for this entire time. You have had no first hand experience of what goes on here in Taiwan since you left a year ago.
 Yet, you continue to come here and make ridiculous and unsupported statements about what is 'fact' in Taiwan. Jason you are quite simply wrong and have been in almost everything that you have ever said on this board.
 If you want to be a valuable member of this board then why don't you actually come back to Taiwan and practice what you preach. If you don't want to this because teaching English in Taiwan is somehow beneath you, then please do us all a favor and find a hobby more relevant to your current interests! |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian: re: your posting. Actually, you guys (with the exception of Aristotle, who appears to know things) are so ignorant of the law regarding private schools and foreign teachers in Taiwan that I am surprised that you do not get shot down more often for your silly statements. My only guess is that most foreigners in Taiwan, who know how things work there, are not interested in posting helpful messages on a discussion board, so you can just say what you like and no one will argue with you. You seem to do nothing other than frighten people with your statements about these draconian, authoritarian laws on Taiwan, which completely do not exist, and could not exist giving the current state of the ESL industry there. I would suggest that you go and try to get an ESL job in Malasia or Singapore, countries where private schools are heavily regulated by the government, and then see what it is like to work in a place which regulates its private schools. I expect that at least half of the people currently working as ESL teachers in Taiwan would not be qualified in either of those places. ESL in Taiwan is an easy market for unqualified teachers because it is unregulated. There are no curriculum requirements, no quotas, no rules regarding what must be taught in an ESL school. Absolutely nothing. The whole system is an afterthought from a government that wants nothing to do with the regulation of private schools. Any requirements that your school enforces on you, are their requirements, and not regulations or legal requirements. |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| brian wrote: |
You lived in a small town in the South Central Area of Taiwan for a nine month period almost one year ago now. You worked at one school for this entire time. You have had no first hand experience of what goes on here in Taiwan since you left a year ago.
Yet, you continue to come here and make ridiculous and unsupported statements about what is 'fact' in Taiwan. Jason you are quite simply wrong and have been in almost everything that you have ever said on this board. |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| brian wrote: |
| brian wrote: |
You lived in a small town in the South Central Area of Taiwan for a nine month period almost one year ago now. You worked at one school for this entire time. You have had no first hand experience of what goes on here in Taiwan since you left a year ago.
Yet, you continue to come here and make ridiculous and unsupported statements about what is 'fact' in Taiwan. Jason you are quite simply wrong and have been in almost everything that you have ever said on this board. |
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hmmm, you appear to have quoted yourself. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| Wow, there seems to be a lot of tension here. And arguement over whether or not it's illegal to teach kindergarten in Taiwan. So the question still remains, is it illegal to teach kindergarten? |
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jason_seeburn
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| Wow, there seems to be a lot of tension here. And arguement over whether or not it's illegal to teach kindergarten in Taiwan. So the question still remains, is it illegal to teach kindergarten? |
Depends. A kindergarten can't usually get you an ARC. So you couldn't work at one legally anyway. But what Kindergartens usually do is rent teachers from other schools that teach school age kids, and can get you an ARC. This practice should be OK, because you are working for your parent school, but apparently Taiwanese authorities don't view it that way and have been calling people on this. You can definately get away with working at a kindergarten in a school that also teaches school age kids, but the arguments here have been that you can't do this anymore in Taipei. My advice is go south. I know in Taichung you can get away with pretty much anything. Taipei is a little police state. I visited once, and got pulled over for a traffic infraction on my motorcycle. I was so surprised I wished I had a camera or had gotten the cop's autograph. Traffic infractions are unheard of in Taichung. I was really shocked. But apparently, that's Taipei. |
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brian
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 299
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| So the question still remains, is it illegal to teach kindergarten? |
Yes it is illegal for foreigners to work in kindergartens, and has been for some time.
Jobs in kindergartens that offer ARC's generally do so by opening as a 'buxiban' which gives them the right to employ foreigners. These buxibans then open kindergarten classes, which aren't allowed under te buxiban licence. The teachers are therefore working legally in an illegal program. When a buxiban and a kindergarten operate within the same building it becomes next to impossible for the authorities to put a stop to it, and so they generally just let things go. This is what has always happened. This is also why foreigners caught working in these types of schools don't generally get into any trouble, as the authorities recognize that the school is at fault - not the teachers.
The recent activity in kindergartens has been aimed at closing down all day immersion kindergartens and isn't aimed at foreign teachers (despite some scaremongering otherwise). Of course, teachers working without ARC's caught up in all of this would be deported, but those with ARC's at the address that they are working seem to have been let off without penalty.
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| A kindergarten can't usually get you an ARC. |
Actually, 'never' would be a more accurate word here!
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| But what Kindergartens usually do is rent teachers from other schools that teach school age kids, and can get you an ARC. |
Yes this does occur, but the majority of kindergartens are operating semi-legally as outlined above.
| jason_seeburn wrote: |
| ... the arguments here have been that you can't do this anymore in Taipei. My advice is go south. I know in Taichung you can get away with pretty much anything. |
Actually it applies evenly throughout the island. |
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