|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
hrvatski
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 270
|
 Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Ah it all makes sense now, clever plan.
It's pretty sensible forcing schools to get accredited (or go bankrupt). Might bring some standardisation to private schools and what it means to finish a level like upper-intermediate. It's pretty surprising in the first place that any old Joe can set up 'education' institutions with absolutely no supervision or audits.
Needless to say the accreditation process will be a nightmare for DoS's to adhere to and the government will massively cock up its introduction with delays and incompetence.
It would be even better if students could receive a government-backed certificate after finishing each level or two. After all, few people spend a year or more studying something just to get a fairly meaningless piece of paper from a little-known language school at the end. There's the incentive of this certificate at the end of each level in Australia (CSWE) and it's really a carrot which is lacking in Poland.
The accrediting associations PASE and EAQUALS who seem to have negotiated this outcome must also be a bit worried, since if a school gets accredited by the Polish education department it may not see the point in getting accredited with additional associations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hrvatski wrote: |
Ah it all makes sense now, clever plan.
It's pretty sensible forcing schools to get accredited (or go bankrupt). Might bring some standardisation to private schools and what it means to finish a level like upper-intermediate. It's pretty surprising in the first place that any old Joe can set up 'education' institutions with absolutely no supervision or audits. |
The effect of this new law really depends on what getting accredited entails.
If getting accredited is simply the DoS filling out some forms for each course, likely forging details, then the effect will be minimal - just another piece of meaningless bureaucracy.
But if the accreditation requirements for courses are more stringent, requiring a certain number of contact hours, certain teaching materials to be used, scores from a standard achievement test, proof of teachers' qualifications, etc., etc. then it could provide some much needed standardization, as you suggest, hrvatski.
If the latter is the case, perhaps demand for private lessons will increase: Many of the cowboy schools would likely have to close because they wouldn't be able to get courses accredited. Their students would then have to look somewhere else for inexpensive English lessons.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hrvatski
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 270
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Agree with all of that. I've been looking for the requirements which schools have to meet but can't seem to find them. Since Profi-Lingua Katowice already has it, it can't be all that hard.
I just read that if a school wants to bring in a new course, for example IELTS or a new language, they have to pay VAT on that particular course for the first year, since only courses which have been running for at least a year beforehand can be accredited. This also means that new schools will have to pay VAT in full for all courses, unless they come in below that earning threshold someone mentioned.
Fascinating stuff, would hate to be a DoS right now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
maniak
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 194
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dynow wrote: |
i started thinking about the same sort of thing about a year ago, but in the end, successful or not, i'd go crazy having to do business on a daily basis with Polish people, the paperwork nightmare that will inevitably be involved along with the employees you're most assuredly going to face.
I decided that I could never commit myself to a business venture like that in an industry which is, by nature, unprofessional......przynajmniej w polsce.
. |
Hey dynow, its not all that bad. Depends what business you want but all in all the paperwork just requires time and a bit of running around. With employees its easy, hire a young guy just out of college, they are ambitious and work very hard. And do it under the table or with an umowe o dzielo.
You just have to prepare yourself to being cheated and blackmailed, never ever let an employee or customer get the upperhand because they will take advantage of it, but be fair and practice good customer service and youll make it. Poles are starting to demand better services and goods, and are willing to pay for it. Im going to open a car wash next year and see how it goes, maybe more money in that than teaching. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hrvatski
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 270
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| A little birdie told me that the whole VAT and accreditation idea is going to be scrapped due to resistance from the schools. Anyone else heard this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
john123
Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 83
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No doubt it was the end of the road for those who had a drink problem or could not be bothered to put themselves about.
I often travel with my boss to a company on a Wednesday morning. Goodness, the stories I have heard of the wasters who have turned up for interview at his office.
The incompetent losers who charge 25zl an hour for private lessons should not worry those who actually have an idea about teaching. I have never had a problem getting 3 private lessons a week and charging 70zl an hour. That alone should comfortably pay for your shopping bill for the week. Providing you do not waste it in alcohol. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wojbrian
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 178
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I wish they would do away with work permits for non-EU people... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
wojbrian wrote:
| Quote: |
| I wish they would do away with work permits for non-EU people... |
doing that would hurt Poland's native speaker population drastically.
some people are willing to take the plunge and work in Poland but it is contingent upon their employer doing all the paperwork. telling a future teacher about getting residency...."well, when you get here, you'll have to go to this office, do this and pay this, then go to this office, do this and pay this, then pay X amount to do this, and you also may have to do this and this and pay this amount, then a police officer will eventually come to your apartment and interview you, then you need to wait 90 days for your paperwork to be reviewed, then.......".....is not very appetizing to a newb.
also, aside from the paperwork part, people on work permits also enjoy the fact that their ZUS and taxes are paid and don't have to go through the a$$ache of paying some backwards accountant every month.
i would never do a work permit because i'd refuse to let my legality in Poland be dependent upon what is sure to be at least a mildly sketchy language school but for some people, the work permit is the only arrangement that will get them there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dynow wrote: |
| i would never do a work permit because i'd refuse to let my legality in Poland be dependent upon what is sure to be at least a mildly sketchy language school but for some people, the work permit is the only arrangement that will get them there. |
Whether you work directly for a school or as a contractor through your own business, Americans must have a work permit in order to get residency in Poland. It's one of the required documents.
So your stay in PL will always be tied to working for a school.
If you, Dynow, were able to stay in Poland sans work permit and still work, I'd love to hear how.
Only other method I know is doing visa runs every 90 days, which is a bit sketchy in itself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dynow wrote: |
wojbrian wrote:
| Quote: |
| I wish they would do away with work permits for non-EU people... |
doing that would hurt Poland's native speaker population drastically.
some people are willing to take the plunge and work in Poland but it is contingent upon their employer doing all the paperwork. telling a future teacher about getting residency...."well, when you get here, you'll have to go to this office, do this and pay this, then go to this office, do this and pay this, then pay X amount to do this, and you also may have to do this and this and pay this amount, then a police officer will eventually come to your apartment and interview you, then you need to wait 90 days for your paperwork to be reviewed, then.......".....is not very appetizing to a newb.
also, aside from the paperwork part, people on work permits also enjoy the fact that their ZUS and taxes are paid and don't have to go through the a$$ache of paying some backwards accountant every month.
i would never do a work permit because i'd refuse to let my legality in Poland be dependent upon what is sure to be at least a mildly sketchy language school but for some people, the work permit is the only arrangement that will get them there. |
I hated those police/government visits to your abode to see whether or not you really lived there when applying for a residency card.
The last time I applied for residency back in 2008,4 government agents came to my place at about 8pm on a Friday evening.3 dudes and a chick.The chick and one of the younger dudes weren't very friendly and requested document after document which you generally don't have laying about at a moment's notice.
I spent about 25 minutes digging through mounds of Polish paperwork and documents to get the stuff they were looking for while they waited in another room.
Combine this with the fact that I was half in the bag and ready to go out to the pub made it all the more awkward.
I felt a bit like a criminal and didn't feel like I was even in my own flat.Take off your hat they said,why do you look different in this picture they asked,why do you want to live in Poland etc etc. All of it was asked in Polish and luckily I happened to have a Polish friend that was there visiting me who acted as a translator.
It was terrible and awkward. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sparks
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 632
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| If you, Dynow, were able to stay in Poland sans work permit and still work, I'd love to hear how. |
When you open your Dzialnosc you are automatically entitled to work in Poland. I recall when I opened one many moons ago the folks at the foreigner's office weren't aware of this and required that I write to the Urzad praca in order to confirm that I didn't need one. They issued an official letter stating what I just did (of course with a bunch of quoted artykuly and paragraph symbols.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
simon_porter00
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 505
Location: Warsaw, Poland
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
I strongly doubt the above as it would be easily abused by everyone, yet everyone I know who is a sole-trader/entrepreneur who is American (e.g. that lanky good-for-nothing Mastershake and others on this board) also has a work permit through a school.
If you can source the relevant sections of the pertinent statutes I'd be more then happy to be corrected. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
shake wrote:
| Quote: |
If you, Dynow, were able to stay in Poland sans work permit and still work, I'd love to hear how.
|
simonporter00 wrote:
| Quote: |
| If you can source the relevant sections of the pertinent statutes I'd be more then happy to be corrected. |
i feel as though this has been covered 100 times on this forum, yet people seem to be surprised that americans can work in poland without a work permit.
I lived and worked in poland, legally, for 4 years, without a work permit. Because i didn't need one. It's not like i found some loophole in the system. my school simply walked me through it and did the same for the 2 americans that they hired after me.
go to poland, get a job, set up your business bank account, get your NIP, REGON, zameldowanie, bla bla bla, and apply for a KB. continue to work, pay your ZUS, pay your taxes, wait for the KB to come. get your KB, live and work in poland for as many years as you want, just pay the fee to have your KB renewed when it expires.
my school would't even offer a work permit for us and like i had said earlier, i was better off because being tied down to any sketchy language school in poland is bad news. i enjoyed the freedom of being able to walk at any time and go do whatever else i wanted to earn money while simultaneously having legal residency through my KB. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
simon_porter00
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 505
Location: Warsaw, Poland
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
not that I would wish to hint or suggest that this is not the case but my question still remains. If it is so easy, why is that the Americans I know need a work permit even though they have their own businesses.
So just to clarify:
An American can come to Poland.
Register himself.
Get a business bank account.
Get NIP, REGON
Set up a business
Get their own KP
and they:
Don't need a work visa
i.e. Americans have exactly the same rules as EU nationals in this respect?
I'd love to see the relevant rules for this.
I'm going to długa 5 soon to try to sort out my own bumpf and get a 10 year stay card - I'll try to check this out at the same time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
simonporter00 wrote:
| Quote: |
If it is so easy, why is that the Americans I know need a work permit even though they have their own businesses.
|
couldn't tell ya.
simonporter00 wrote:
| Quote: |
So just to clarify:
An American can come to Poland.
Register himself.
Get a business bank account.
Get NIP, REGON
Set up a business
Get their own KP
and they:
Don't need a work visa |
that's right.
i did this back in 2007 and i watched 2 americans after that do it in 2008 and 2009. i left in 2011, nothing had changed and nothing else was ever asked of me.
as a matter of fact, my wife and i went through the motions in 2010 to get her a green card to come to the USA with me to live and during that process (long as hell) my 4 years in poland was under a lot of scrutiny. she was given a green card without any problems and with me as the main sponsor, i was under as much if not more scrutiny than she was throughout the process. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
