|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Kalima Shahada
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Location: I live in a house, but my home is in the stable.
|
 Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| tacomaboywa wrote: |
| Kalima Shahada wrote: |
In my case, everything was in writing, but it didn't help. I worked with some people who were not legal, but we were all treated the same. In essence, I don't trust that employers will fully honor their contracts. My employer also agreed to provide transportation, but they forgot to pick us up on many different occassions. We were told to find our own way even though we didn't even have directions to begin with. And everything they promised about the apartment (in writing) did not materialize - we were stuck in hotels. Trying to get out of this contract and out of the country was a nightmare! |
You're not by chance in Hail? Sounds similar to some other stories from there. Perhaps you can provide some info about this company so others may avoid them in the future. Thanks! |
I worked at a university and if you take a look on these boards, you can see that most of the universities in Saudi pretty much all have the same old complaints from fed-up teachers. Seriously when we have to go to work every single day (for weeks) and the admin. are so incompetent that they can't even provide water in the building (THINK about how the toilets looked and smelled), no telephones, no working computers, no books, no resources, no rubbish bins, no maids, few white boards and smart boards that didn't function... how much can we take!? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tacomaboywa
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kalima Shahada wrote: |
| tacomaboywa wrote: |
| Kalima Shahada wrote: |
In my case, everything was in writing, but it didn't help. I worked with some people who were not legal, but we were all treated the same. In essence, I don't trust that employers will fully honor their contracts. My employer also agreed to provide transportation, but they forgot to pick us up on many different occassions. We were told to find our own way even though we didn't even have directions to begin with. And everything they promised about the apartment (in writing) did not materialize - we were stuck in hotels. Trying to get out of this contract and out of the country was a nightmare! |
You're not by chance in Hail? Sounds similar to some other stories from there. Perhaps you can provide some info about this company so others may avoid them in the future. Thanks! |
I worked at a university and if you take a look on these boards, you can see that most of the universities in Saudi pretty much all have the same old complaints from fed-up teachers. Seriously when we have to go to work every single day (for weeks) and the admin. are so incompetent that they can't even provide water in the building (THINK about how the toilets looked and smelled), no telephones, no working computers, no books, no resources, no rubbish bins, no maids, few white boards and smart boards that didn't function... how much can we take!? |
Time to move on then. I'm still curious about the employer. Anyone we know?
Although I don't have fond memories working for M-Trading at JIC, I must say that JIC at least had the basics to work with. They were just a bit incompetent in administration. As I understand, they still use M-Trading.
-------------
Avoid M-Trading!
http://www.tulbah.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lizziebennet
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 355
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: Education Experts |
|
|
Well, I have been in Saudi for nearly 2 months. I was recruited through ISM and now work for EDEX at Qassim University. It is a government university.
Just to make it clear we are on a 90 day govt visa. The university name is written on it in Arabic. So we are not here illegally, we are here legally.
We can rent a car. My husband and I have a car at present. An automatic for SAR70 a day. Some other teachers have got a manual for SAR55 a day.
You can send money through Telemoney so there is no problem there. It arrives in 1 day and they charge SAR75 per SAR10 000.
The accomodation is great. All of our team live in a hotel. In fact my husband and I have a two bedroomed suite with a fully equipped kitchen. We get room service everyday and free internet (which doesn't work all the time but this is due to the high volume of people using it in the hotel.
We have drivers that drive us to the university everyday. Our main driver also drives us to the bank after we get paid. EDex bought a very large van to accomodate us in this way. Every evening there is a trip to a mall a hypermarket or souk. This means that you don't have to pay a taxi to go do your shopping and can just go with the van.
The company will not be giving us igamas which is bad for those with families but for others we are perfectly fine without them. Some of the staff went to Jordan for the vacation and just applied for a new govt visa while on vacation. They got back into the country fine.
By the way we just had a 17 day vacation and got our full salary for it. Yes, it was late but they told us it would be late and paid on the day. I think they had to travel to Najran by car so maybe that is why they were paid after us. Apparently it will be late every month. In Korea we used to get paid on the 5th or 10th of the next month so are used to that.
Not only that, but EDEX hired an entire ISLAND on the RED SEA for the teachers during the vacation. It was an all expenses paid 3 days on an island. About 25 of us went and had an awsome time! We didn't have to wear the abaya or anything. We swam day and night, went out on boat trips. Went fishing and snorkelling. Sat around campfires. Smoked Apple flavoured shisha, played cards and relaxed. It was a little taste of paradise (See avatar).
As far as the girls working hours go we go in at 8am and leave at 2:30. We only teach for approx 3 hours and 20 min a day (2 classes of about 1:40 min) in terms of contact hours (they count that as 4 hours). Some teachers will teach 3 classes a day but on other days they will have breaks. Most teachers are on 20 hours, one or two on 22 because we are short one teacher. People who teach more than one writing class work 16 hours because they have a lot more marking.
We didn't have books, desks, markers etc in the beginning. But now we have desks and books. I just buy my own markers.
Students are awesome and their English is great! Our city is tough. It is truly the most conservative place in the country. The muttawa and come to our hotel and asked us to veil and I have also run into them at a souk where they wanted me to cover my eyes as well but we had security police with us and they spoke to the Muttawa. If I walk alone I veil. If I walk with my husband I just wear a scarf but I am pushing it.
As far as things to do there is really not much, especially for woman. Edex has offered to pay half of our gym fees. We are lucky that there is a woman's gym 2 blocks away. They have basic equipment and two aerobics classes everyday. I enjoy going. The men's gym is awsome and has a pool, jacuzzi, steam room, indoor soccer field, etc.
Edex has also hired a soccer field 2 or 3 times a week.
Because we all live in the same hotel we do group activities such as quiz nights, board games nights, dinners, going to restuarants, quad biking and bbq's. Sometimes these acivities are done in smaller groups depending on who your friendship circle is.
If anyone has any questions, please feel free to pm me.
I am happy with my job, I get paid and I enjoy the teaching. My husband and I live on US $1000 a month and are saving about $5000 US a month and not working as much as we did in Singapore or Korea. Saudi has it's pros and cons but if you wanna save money this is a good place to be!
Last edited by lizziebennet on Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tacomaboywa
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Education Experts |
|
|
| lizziebennet wrote: |
Well, I have been in Saudi for nearly 2 months. I was recruited through ISM and now work for EDEX at Qassim University. It is a government university.
Just to make it clear we are on a 90 day govt visa. The university name is written on it in Arabic. So we are not here illegally, we are here legally. |
Glad to hear you are happy with your conditions. However, I must point out that a Government Visa is not an Employment Visa. You may be legally in the country but still illegally working.
Are you able to send the money directly yourself? Can you open a bank account? Can you exit the country and come back (like a quick trip to Cairo or Bahrain)?
Yeah, I know you don't need an Iqama for renting a car. At least it is possible.
Why should you buy markers? Something so simple should be provided.
Best of luck!
-------------
Avoid M-Trading!
http://www.tulbah.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lizziebennet
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 355
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As I said previously, the university's name is on our visa because we are working there and it is legal. Hence the fact that we can send money, rent cars etc... We also have an agreement with a particular hospital due to working for the government at a government university. They have even made sure we have security.
My husband and I have both been to the hospital for different reasons and
all medical attention was free. Even the medicine was free. I assure you that this visa is valid and recognized.
We send money in our own names. In fact the bank allowed my husband to send money to Canada. We use Telemoney because it is cheaper.
Yes, you cannot just go somewhere for the weekend which is a con but if you have a weeks vacation or the 17 days you can go (but have to apply for a new govt visa in the country you visit). My husband and I will be in Jordan for the Feb vacation and maybe Egypt for the April vacation.
They did buy us markers and stationary but it has not been replenished. I haven't asked about it though so I am sure if we ask they will provide I just can't be bothered.
All I can say is that being on this visa is not as bad as some of the posters on this site make it to be. Neither from my experience is working for a recruiter (in our case EDEX). For you to be a direct hire you need an MA and at least 3 published works. I have neither so I am quite happy going through a recruiter. Now if you have those types of credentials by all means get a job as a direct hire but if not this option is a good one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tacomaboywa
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lizziebennet wrote: |
| As I said previously, the university's name is on our visa because we are working there and it is legal. Hence the fact that we can send money, rent cars etc... |
Well, you're lucky you are able to send the money using the Government Visit Visa. Yes, I'm sure the name of the University is on there. I assume they are the sponsor or somehow tied to this new type of visa. Here's a link to info about this visa at the Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia:
http://www.saudiembassy.net/services/Government-Visit-Visa.aspx
It says, "Business visas do not grant to the applicant the right to work or to reside in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia."
Yes, they wrote "Business visas...", but it is clearly under the notes for Government Visit Visas. I still believe that you're legally there, but not legally allowed to work.
However, if this gig is working out for you then great. As long as you get what you believe you deserve then all is fine.
-------------
Avoid M-Trading!
http://www.tulbah.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lizziebennet wrote: |
| For you to be a direct hire you need an MA and at least 3 published works. |
Hi Lizzie... glad that it is working out for you unlike it has not for so many others. We'd all been wondering how you were doing.
I just wanted to point out that this detail that you posted is incorrect. There are many direct hire teachers in Saudi who do not have MAs (and members right here  ) and of all the MAs that I know, none of them have published anything. So whoever told you that... was... ummm... misinformed. 
VS
(BTW... I think you might be hearing about your large avatar size... I miss your first one... ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mia Xanthi
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 955
Location: why is my heart still in the Middle East while the rest of me isn't?
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lizzie, I am very happy to hear that things are working out well for you so far. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Just to make it clear we are on a 90 day govt visa. The university name is written on it in Arabic. So we are not here illegally, we are here legally.
|
The fact that the university name is written on your visa means nothing. Everyone who has a Saudi visa has got it via a sponsor whose name will always appear on the visa - even if it is a 30 day working visa. The appearance of their name on your visa only indicates that they are your legal sponsor - not that you have the right to work full-time for them.
Also, sending money through Telemony does not reqire an iqama, though you need one to open a bank account.
Other than that, glad to hear you're happy so far. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lazycomputerkids
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Tabuk
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Education Experts |
|
|
| lizziebennet wrote: |
| Just to make it clear we are on a 90 day govt visa. The university name is written on it in Arabic. So we are not here illegally, we are here legally. |
I think the distinction that's caused so much confusion is whether your entry to Saudi Arabia was predicated by terms of a visit or a year long contract.
When your 90 days expire, how does EDEX plan on retaining you?
By renewing a visa process? Instead of obtaining an iqama?
Given the shortage of teachers I hear reported, I'm not surprised government entities have been granted a latitude to recruit teachers by evolving terms. But what might remain to be seen is how those terms impact recruits. If you're forced to travel to renew a visa process, I'd consider that a negative impact.
To give an example of a trade off: Upon arrival, my visa was required in the process of obtaining an iqama. When Hajj's vacation arrived, temporary papers allowed travel about Saudi Arabia, but not its neighbors. I should receive an iqama soon, and by February's vacation, I will be able to travel to neighboring countries.
I don't like the temporary restrictions of my travel due to bureaucratic turn-around times, but I will enjoy the permanent liberties of an iqama.
Your post describes work-arounds that EDEX has engineered in order to compete against a larger company. Hotels, wire services and vans compared to compounds, bank accounts and a bus. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kalima Shahada
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Location: I live in a house, but my home is in the stable.
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Education Experts |
|
|
| lazycomputerkids wrote: |
| If you're forced to travel to renew a visa process, I'd consider that a negative impact. |
I wouldn't; I'd consider it an all-expenses-paid holiday every 90 days. You don't get that under a regular work visa. Under normal work contracts, the best you can hope for is a plane ticket back home only once a year and the rest is at your own expense.
| Quote: |
| Your post describes work-arounds that EDEX has engineered in order to compete against a larger company. Hotels, wire services and vans compared to compounds, bank accounts and a bus. |
Look, I had a perfectly legit work visa and I was at a large university, but we never got a compound or a bus. We were promised compound like apartments complete with gyms and facilites, but we ended up in a 3 star hotel with no kitchens, no washing machines, no printers and one computer for the whole hotel. Nevermind about getting the allowance to find our own place even though that was stipulated in our contract as an option. Nobody was given that option.
Bank accounts? Yeah right! The university took three to six months (or not at all) to process an Iqama. They waited so long that some people had to go out and come back with another work visa!
A bus?! You've got to be kidding! We were lucky to be picked up at all! Even if we were picked up, the vas was frequently late.
I had a lot of things in writing in my contract, but the only promise they ever kept was picking me up at the airport on time. Some people didn't even get that.
If you ask me, contracts mean nothing in Saudi - absolutely NOTHING! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
craig49
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
lazycomputerkids - excellent point regarding temp visas and work visas/iqama. i cannot say that i agree with Kalima Shahada, for most people going through the visa process several times a year is not ideal at all. it is unfortunate that you are not being treated well in KSA, however it might have something to do with the fact that you are not a native speaker. this is very obvious from your name and how fickle you are about grammar as in some of your previous posts. in KSA nationality is often much more important than how good a person can teach or think they can teach, especially a non-native teacher. for me, i haven't had too many problems while in KSA but that is just me. students also complain about non native teachers because to them it just seems unfair. all of this makes it easier for the school or admin to take advantage. in my experience native english speakers with western passports get treated the best, even those with western passports but were born abroad and eventually got the passport get treated decent, but those with other passports are sometimes at the mercy of the system. Kalima Shahada if you are really not happy with your conditions why not look for another job?
lizziebennet - you sound content and that is great but don't be over-excited about getting paid for the eid holiday. you signed a 1 year contract right? EVERY job in the middle east pays for holidays if you sign for one year. what is the other option? you also seem so nonchalant about not getting an iqama or work visa, but do you really feel that you have any degree of job security? what about the summer? are you certain that you will be paid for the whole summer without a work visa. how do you know they won't let you go after spring semester? most universities have a system regarding summer pay, salary increases, bonuses, ect. do you have anything like this? rewards for staying on a 2nd or 3rd year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tacomaboywa
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 194
Location: The Magic Kingdom
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Education Experts |
|
|
| Kalima Shahada wrote: |
I wouldn't; I'd consider it an all-expenses-paid holiday every 90 days. You don't get that under a regular work visa. Under normal work contracts, the best you can hope for is a plane ticket back home only once a year and the rest is at your own expense. |
Doubtful, most of these recruiters try to save as much money and get these things renewed in country. They normally don't need to send you anywhere. It's possible to get stuck in the country for the whole academic year. It has happened to many who have come on Business Visas and such.
| Quote: |
Look, I had a perfectly legit work visa and I was at a large university, but we never got a compound or a bus. We were promised compound like apartments complete with gyms and facilites, but we ended up in a 3 star hotel with no kitchens, no washing machines, no printers and one computer for the whole hotel. Nevermind about getting the allowance to find our own place even though that was stipulated in our contract as an option. Nobody was given that option.
Bank accounts? Yeah right! The university took three to six months (or not at all) to process an Iqama. They waited so long that some people had to go out and come back with another work visa!
A bus?! You've got to be kidding! We were lucky to be picked up at all! Even if we were picked up, the vas was frequently late.
I had a lot of things in writing in my contract, but the only promise they ever kept was picking me up at the airport on time. Some people didn't even get that.
If you ask me, contracts mean nothing in Saudi - absolutely NOTHING! |
I know many many people who have never had problems with their legit contracts. My personal experience as well has been positive. The only thing that seems to happen often is that employers may promise or suggest you'll get something verbally and it often doesn't happen. If it is not in the contract or in some written form then they do not have to do anything. However, everything that has been included in my contract has always been fulfilled. You just seem to be unlucky. By the way, who is this bad employer? Perhaps others can avoid them.
-------------
Avoid M-Trading!
http://www.tulbah.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lizziebennet
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 355
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Hi Lizzie... glad that it is working out for you unlike it has not for so many others. We'd all been wondering how you were doing. |
| Quote: |
| Glad to hear you are happy with your conditions |
| Quote: |
| Lizzie, I am very happy to hear that things are working out well for you so far. |
Thanks so much guys  
| Quote: |
| Doubtful, most of these recruiters try to save as much money and get these things renewed in country. They normally don't need to send you anywhere. It's possible to get stuck in the country for the whole academic year. It has happened to many who have come on Business Visas and such. |
I am not there but Edex tells us we can get our business visas extended 3 times (perhaps more). Now I am going to Jordan for the Feb uni break and so I will be on a new business visa that can be extended 3 times. So I am not bothered in that regard and I don't have to do visa runs or anything. But we can't leave for weekends 
| Quote: |
| lizziebennet - you sound content and that is great but don't be over-excited about getting paid for the eid holiday. you signed a 1 year contract right? |
I know but I worked in Korea where I only got 10 days vacation a year. I was only here for 6 weeks and then had 17 days off. Even if it is usual I was very happy about it
| Quote: |
| do you really feel that you have any degree of job security? what about the summer? are you certain that you will be paid for the whole summer without a work visa. |
Not sure really but my husband and I have back up plans in place if this is the case. Of course we would love to be direct hires, hopefully after getting this experience we will be able to get a job as direct hires.
| Quote: |
| When Hajj's vacation arrived, temporary papers allowed travel about Saudi Arabia |
Some of us flew to Jeddah for part of the Hajj vacation. Others hired a car and travelled all over Saudi in it. None of us had travel papers. They looked at our visas in our passports and let us through no problem. I am not quite sure what you mean here...
| Quote: |
| For you to be a direct hire you need an MA and at least 3 published works |
My husband said he heard that from somone on staff at the men's section. This was in reference to Qassim university's hiring policy. Most of the direct hires are Pakistani, Kashmiri and Egyptian and most of them have PHDs and are not native speakers. I don't know about other universities.
Last edited by lizziebennet on Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Lizzie,
All is relative... and your situation is a good example of that. As long as you are aware of the pros and cons, and are content that at least it is better than your previous situation... I see no big problem.
Hopefully being able to stick around... and when you leave have a positive reference to add to your CVs along with the record of a completed contract... not to mention the savings... (), you should be able to get something better.
Fingers crossed that all will keep ticking along...
VS
(so nice to see the happy couple again. ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
