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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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 Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| idiggs wrote: |
| scooby doo wrote: |
| one of my most serious teachers started here with an i-to-i. She went and did a CELTA after her first year and turned out to be quite dedicated. |
I'm not saying that a person should get an I-to-I and not continue to further their education but as you see you hired someone with such qualifications.
Don't get me wrong...some people will try and go the cheapest way as possible. However, I am not encouraging this.
As I said before, I encourage people to get their CELTA/Trinity but for people who cannot afford it at the moment...I-to-I is a low cost alternative supplement until they can get a CELTA/Trinity/SIT.
I think you need to look at the person and their references before you write somebody off as "not serious" because they chose to do I-to-I first rather than a CELTA. |
Again, idiggs, this thread (especially the comments about TESL in Canada) and that other thread (http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=78850&start=0) really show that you aren't well versed in current ESL/EFL education and hiring. If you think CELTA/Trinity vs i-to-i is like Harvard to community college, that *really* gives it away.
May I ask, what is your background/training/experience/education in ESL or EFL? The problem is that you seem to be giving misleading advice to other newbies. |
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idiggs
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 47
Location: Ecuador La Costa
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| santi84 wrote: |
| idiggs wrote: |
| scooby doo wrote: |
| one of my most serious teachers started here with an i-to-i. She went and did a CELTA after her first year and turned out to be quite dedicated. |
I'm not saying that a person should get an I-to-I and not continue to further their education but as you see you hired someone with such qualifications.
Don't get me wrong...some people will try and go the cheapest way as possible. However, I am not encouraging this.
As I said before, I encourage people to get their CELTA/Trinity but for people who cannot afford it at the moment...I-to-I is a low cost alternative supplement until they can get a CELTA/Trinity/SIT.
I think you need to look at the person and their references before you write somebody off as "not serious" because they chose to do I-to-I first rather than a CELTA. |
Again, idiggs, this thread (especially the comments about TESL in Canada) and that other thread (http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=78850&start=0) really show that you aren't well versed in current ESL/EFL education and hiring. If you think CELTA/Trinity vs i-to-i is like Harvard to community college, that *really* gives it away.
May I ask, what is your background/training/experience/education in ESL or EFL? The problem is that you seem to be giving misleading advice to other newbies. |
Ok...that thread shows that I am not a money hungry teacher and that I prefer complete happiness over prestige and luxuries. Just because we have different personalities doesn't make me less of a man than you.
I have friends that achieved success with I-to-I so I base my advice on their success. Yea...they got their CELTA eventually but their success with I-to-I alone showed me what type of organization I-to-I is.
I respect people with more insight but don't be arrogant about it.
Just because you haven't achieved success with I-to-I doesn't give you the reason to bash them.
And I am not misleading anybody but just giving my opinion (like anybody else would).
It is just like sports. Yea they are rookies (newbies) in the game but some of those rookies outperform a lot of veterans. |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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This has nothing to do with arrogance or money hunger, etc.
My comment refers to newbies coming onto the newbie forum looking for advice on ESL teacher training, certifications, employment, etc.
There are experienced teachers on here with training in ESL/TEFL (and in some cases, TESL), who are telling newbies that i-to-i is not sufficient as a program to meet basic industry standards, for a variety of reasons.
You, on the other hand, appear to have no experience, training, or background in ESL or EFL (since you said you are basing your advice on what you have heard from others), and continue to give these newbies the impression that i-to-i meets basic industry standards. It does not.
In Japan, which was the subject of the OP's initial question, an i-to-i will not offer the OP an advantage (as they already have a degree as well as some teaching experience).
Signed,
A "money hungry" ESL teacher in Canada who is on unpaid mat leave after spending 8 years working part-time to earn her degree and TESL certificate. |
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idiggs
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 47
Location: Ecuador La Costa
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| santi84 wrote: |
You, on the other hand, appear to have no experience, training, or background in ESL or EFL (since you said you are basing your advice on what you have heard from others), and continue to give these newbies the impression that i-to-i meets basic industry standards. It does not. |
The only thing that is correct about this statement is that I do not have any ESL school training. And I base my advice on not what I heard but on what I physically saw with my own eyes. I ACTUALLY saw their success (being there with them, watching them teach).
| santi84 wrote: |
Signed,
A "money hungry" ESL teacher in Canada who is on unpaid mat leave after spending 8 years working part-time to earn her degree and TESL certificate. |
I am sincerely sorry about your situation. Maybe you went down a path that you regret and don't want people to suffer like you did. But the truth is a lot of people go in the same path and not everyone suffers. Above all else, I hope things do get better for you (and I really mean that too).
I have a paying job that I don't like but also having an volunteer teaching job that I love. Sure, it would be great if I could paid for the teaching that I currently do. I'm not so concerned about making a lot of money teaching but rather just getting a paid teaching position so I can quit the paying job I currently dislike. |
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ej1986
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I was also considering getting an i-to-i cert to better my chances of finding a job in Japan, in part because of the recommendation of all-about-teaching-english-in-japan.com. I thought that since many Japanese job postings don't require a teaching cert or teaching experience at all, having even an i-to-i cert would give me a competitive advantage. From your comments, I am starting to doubt whether an employer would give any weight to an i-to-i cert at all.
Someone here suggested that an "industry standard" is a 120-hour course with at least 6 hours of observed teaching. Just doing a web search, it's difficult to ascertain which schools meet this standard. I know that CELTA and Trinity are respected degrees, but are they the only way to go?
Suppose my local college offered a TEFL cert. Employers in Japan will most certainly have never heard of this school, but if the coursework was 120 hours and included at least 6 hours of observed teaching time, would it serve me better than an i-to-i cert?
Sorry for overloading you with questions! And thanks! |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I was also considering getting an i-to-i cert to better my chances of finding a job in Japan, in part because of the recommendation of all-about-teaching-english-in-japan.com. I thought that since many Japanese job postings don't require a teaching cert or teaching experience at all, having even an i-to-i cert would give me a competitive advantage. From your comments, I am starting to doubt whether an employer would give any weight to an i-to-i cert at all. |
I don't know about Japanese employers. I've never worked in Japan.
Places I have worked, an i to i cert could never help you. At BEST, places that don't know squat but will hire a native no matter what might hire you.
To places that DO know squat, and require a cert, by having i to i on your resume, you aren't just not having a cert. You're not having one, and showing that you either are looking for the cheapest way out, or don't know enough to know what a qualification is. Neither of these looks good.
| Quote: |
| Someone here suggested that an "industry standard" is a 120-hour course with at least 6 hours of observed teaching. Just doing a web search, it's difficult to ascertain which schools meet this standard. I know that CELTA and Trinity are respected degrees, but are they the only way to go? |
If it's hard to figure out, it probably doesn't meet the standard. Good courses advertise! But...if you're not sure, post courses you're considering here, and we'll check'em out.
| Quote: |
| Suppose my local college offered a TEFL cert. Employers in Japan will most certainly have never heard of this school, but if the coursework was 120 hours and included at least 6 hours of observed teaching time, would it serve me better than an i-to-i cert? |
Generally speaking, if it's issued by a real, checkable college, it's going to look pretty good.
| Quote: |
| The only thing that is correct about this statement is that I do not have any ESL school training. And I base my advice on not what I heard but on what I physically saw with my own eyes. I ACTUALLY saw their success (being there with them, watching them teach). |
And...um....not to put to fine a point on this, but you're qualified to evaluate quality teaching?
And by the way, I've known popular teachers without any training at all. So all your observations really proves is that i to i is just as good as no training at all. THis, I think I'll agree with you on.
Best,
Justin |
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kazazt
Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| ej1986 wrote: |
I was also considering getting an i-to-i cert to better my chances of finding a job in Japan, in part because of the recommendation of all-about-teaching-english-in-japan.com. I thought that since many Japanese job postings don't require a teaching cert or teaching experience at all, having even an i-to-i cert would give me a competitive advantage. From your comments, I am starting to doubt whether an employer would give any weight to an i-to-i cert at all.
Someone here suggested that an "industry standard" is a 120-hour course with at least 6 hours of observed teaching. Just doing a web search, it's difficult to ascertain which schools meet this standard. I know that CELTA and Trinity are respected degrees |
They are not degrees and they are the industry standard entry level qualifications. |
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Quichia
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: What did you decide? |
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I read the posts on the i-to-i...
However, you're going to Japan to teach English no? With a Bachelor's in English?
If you are a Native English speaker (with a passport from a Native-English speaking country) you DO NOT necessarily need a tefl certification.
I actually went to a meeting with Oxford Seminars to see if I should get a tefl certificate and their personal recruiter/teacher (who was really cool) told me to try to just apply without spending money on a tefl certificate.
I am going to say 90% of the jobs that I have applied to did not ask for a tefl certificate in Japan.
Good luck! |
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