Job Discussion Forums

CThomas · Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Posts: 380 Location: HCMC, Vietnam

Ah... The Love Cafe? Cool.

jb0072009 · Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Posts: 127 Location: Saigon

Yes it is worth remembering that we are in a third world country. With all the high rises and fancy department stores it is easy to forget that most Vietnamese make about $100/month. Just take a bus ride to the Delta and you will see how truely this is a third world country. You think the begging and stuff is bad here in Saigon? Go to Nha Trang and you will really see that in action. There everyone wants only one thing from you: money Even for practicing English they want you to give them money. A pity because that area is so beautiful

CThomas · Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Posts: 380 Location: HCMC, Vietnam

flyingmonkey · Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Posts: 24

inky · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 283 Location: Hanoi

Now we've gone from someone wanting to punch a poor streetkid in the face to complaining about being victimized by fake taxis. And the fake taxis justify punching a kid in the face. You people have a very warped view of the world.

Mattingly · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 249

Buffalo Boy · Joined: 02 Oct 2009 Posts: 80

Re my shoeshine boy comment. I was simply reminiscing about my own first few days in Vietnam when the Pham seemed like a colourful meeting place of travellers and not a cesspit of vice and human exploitation. I certainly never punched any of them but I was sorely tempted a few times.

I heard all the same stories about how the gangs run them and a lot of them owe money. This is certainly a third world country and people do desperate things. It is a hard land and it breeds hard people. Pity has no place here.

wasted_ace19 · Joined: 19 Nov 2009 Posts: 41

Buffalo Boy:

What do you mean exactly when you say the Pham is a "cesspit of vice..."? (I understand the "human expolitation" part).

I've heard other people, and guidebooks, say similar things, but without ever actually going into any detail.

We all have our "vices" (some more than others), yet you use the word "cesspit"- are you saying the area should be avoided? I'm moving to HCMC in March (though I have visitied before)

Buffalo Boy · Joined: 02 Oct 2009 Posts: 80

Not necessarily avoided, but definitely not lingered in. A lot of people coming to teach in HCMC stay there while they find their feet. Cheap guest houses, cheap western style food, the chance to meet and network with other foreigners.

The downside is all the Vietnamese who congregate there to relieve the unwary of their cash, as detailed in the previous posts.

My "cesspit of vice" comment was not based on a detailed analysis of crime statistics or anything. There are a lot of xe om drivers giving you the "Marajuana, opium, young girl" sales pitch. I would say those are vices. How much vice is required to qualify a place as a cesspit?

For the record I do not advocate using physical violence to deter or punish shoeshine boys. Many or most of them are poor, vulnerable, desperate people who would rather be doing anything than shining shoes, stealing them or cutting them up with a shank. Don't give them any money either. The money goes straight to the gang leaders. Don't wear shoes that require a shine. Wear flip flops like a normal Vietnamese person. Break the cycle.

inky · Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Posts: 283 Location: Hanoi

I like the PNL area. A lot of the people working there have been there for a decade or more, and many of them are decent, honest and hardworking. Of course, there are many unpleasant types, as you'd find in any tourist-heavy area, but to refer to it as a 'cesspit' of anything is ridiculous. Mind your own business, keep an eye on your valuables, and learn to politely and resolutely say 'no.' It is possible to wear shoes and decline a shoeshine, you know.

Buffalo Boy · Joined: 02 Oct 2009 Posts: 80

I called it a cesspit and I stand by that. If you don't like people who drink beer at Go2 how can you like the Pham? Go2 is the ground zero of the Pham.

I can decline shoeshines while wearing shoes but I have to yell and swear a lot and that disturbs my peace of mind. I wasn't aware that so many denizens of the Pham were honest God fearing citizens.

Doesn't your profile say you're in Hanoi anyway?

Zembekiko1Aegean · Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 28

Okay....my three cents. P. Nhu Lao is a MOD EDIT I lived down there for a year after first coming to Saigon....and you can take this straight to the bank, you will get ripped off there faster than any other place in the city. Don't leave your motorbike unattended for too long, it will dissapear and no one will admit to seeing the mafia type who carted it away for fear of reprisals. Don't get drunk and have a lot of cash on you, it will be gone. Take care of your cell phone or camera. The Vietnamese are allways watching what goes on in the streets, some only to maintain a civilised decorum, others to exploit. The area is, simply put, the armpit of Saigon if not the country. To say nothing of the myriad collection of dopey foreign tourists, drunken teachers, and disgusting sex tourists. Reminds me of the West Village in it's day.
Now, I'm going to say something which might disturb some of you, and cause indignation and comment. There is a contingency of Black Africans from Somalia and Nigeria who, to be frank, scare the crap out of the Vietnamese. If you've spent even a day down there, you know who I mean. I have Vietnamese friends who have told me stories about robbery, rape, and violence by these few. These individuals are involved with the drug trade, prostitution, and perhaps strong-arming. I'm talking violent people, which by nature, the Vietnamese are not. Unfortunatly, they give other people of their color a very bad name. I have a number of Black African's who I can call a friend down there. They just shake there heads in appology when I mention it. Because Vietnam wants to be in the WTO club, they can't just refuse entry with a blanket edict, but I beleive that part of this work permit/visa thing, is getting rid of undesirables in their country. And that includes "Bogus" teachers. Pham Gnu Lau is a nice place to get a meal, but keep your wits about you. Go down there and gawk at the tourists and criminals. Go ahead, I expect to be "flamed" on this post.

Buffalo Boy · Joined: 02 Oct 2009 Posts: 80

Flamed for telling the truth? I expect you will be.

Your post is long on truth and short on political correctness. Everyone was thinking it, but you said it.

Wasn't there a plan to level the Pham and redevelop the whole area? Couldn't be a bad thing.

The Pham is a disgrace to Vietnam.

haller_79 · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 145

Zembekiko1Aegean · Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 28

......And you most likely pay big bucks to live with other ex-pats in a nice and anti-septic high rise apartment building high above the city. Get real.