|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Aristede
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 180
|
 Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:38 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| MaiPenRai wrote: |
Based on your posts, it would appear that there were jobs available, but they weren't good enough for you, yet you say that you were only looking for a bottom-rung job. Doesn't add up to me. |
Change the emphasis on that first quote to "in the last month." By that time I had made inquiries to schools in China and Indonesia to find out if my prospects were better in these countries, which they were. So by early March (when things were picking up in Thailand), I had already decided to change locale. That's why I said that the March responses were not anything that would keep me here.
| Quote: |
| Age most certainly would account for a number of unresponsive employers. With only a CELTA and no exp and unrelated B.A., you will find a difficult time finding work if 45+ in Thailand. If its down to a 26 year old and a 46 year old both with similar resumes, most language schools will take the 26 year old. Looks and presentation play a big role as well. You need to be marketable. |
I am painfully aware of that. To reword my comment, I did not think that age was a large enough factor in Thailand to account for the lack of response. I didn't believe from what I had read that ageism in Thailand was nearly as strong as in Korea, for example. It appears that this is not so. Thailand is "no country for old men." 
| Quote: |
| Once again, sorry you couldn't find what you were hoping to find. Why not try China? It seems that they are less judgemental about age there. |
I have done so, and that is where I am headed next. The entire tone of responses I've gotten from China have been much more positive than anything I've gotten in Thailand.
Ageism is absurd, and in teaching especially so, but it is an unfortunate reality in some places that one must either compensate for in other ways or go elsewhere. Incidentally, my intention here was never to bash Thailand, but let people in the same situation (age, education, time of arrival, etc.) know what they may be dealing with when they come looking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gypsy King
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 77
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Seems now that China is a better deal for teachers over 45+ years old these days than Thailand. This confirms the truth that Thais only want young backpacker teachers in their 20's right out of Kaosan Road with little or NO teaching qualificatons whatsover. This also confirms my suspicion that the trend is toward volunteer and low paying EFL instructors in th LOS...thus teachers right out of school. Although there are teacher s over 66+m years still teaching here they will soon unfortunately be mostly volunteers thanks to the THAI EFL Bath wages. TIT |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MaiPenRai
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 390
Location: BKK
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Seems now that China is a better deal for teachers over 45+ years old these days than Thailand. |
True
| Quote: |
| This confirms the truth that Thais only want young backpacker teachers in their 20's right out of Kaosan Road with little or NO teaching qualificatons whatsover. |
That is a HUGE jump to make a confirmed conclusion. and once again, it is just not true. Most schools want qualified (TESOL certified) teachers who are relatively young, presentable, energetic, and easy going. Most schools DO NOT want 20 something Kao San backpackers. That doesn't mean they are willing to pay what WE think is appropriate for that certification and/or experience. I have recruited for schools and agnecies for 3-4 years, so this is coming from experience, NOT from guessing.
| Quote: |
| This also confirms my suspicion that the trend is toward volunteer and low paying EFL instructors in th LOS...thus teachers right out of school |
Once again, a HUGE jump to a conclusion like that. There is NO TREND towards volunteer teaching. The volunteer option has been around for many years and always will be. Nothing new except a couple more companies competing in the volunteer industry. EFL has always been relatively low paid in Thailand so nothing new there. While the lower end job's salaries have remained relatively stagnant, the REAL TREND is towards low-mid tier "International" or private schools where decent and even quite good salaries/packages are available (although usually crappy inept management as well). There has also recently been a resurgence in the English Programs in government schools. The government has given grants to about 500 pilot schools to install or re-install English Programs. These generally pay slightly more than normal EFL positions (i.e. 35-50,000/month).
Nothing new about ESL teachers being "right out of school". That is pretty common in most countries for EFL (Korea, Japan, China, etc.). ESL has almost always been a gap-year type job. As the industry has grown in the past 10-15 years in many countries, some doors opened for it to become a career for a few of us.
If starting a new career at 60, it wouldn't be easy in any industry in any country. Those who are older but have been teaching for a few years have an easierr time and those who have in country experience find it even easier, yet still a challenge. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gypsy King
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 77
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Thailand "ESL" job market is definitely going the "volunteer" route. I have spoken to quite a number of recruiters and Thai language school managers here in the Big Mango BKK and they say this is the future trend of the TEFL indutry here.Thais wll be lowering and lowering their ESL wages to the point where they will only be recruiting volunteers to teach English.The LOS will be nothing more than a backpackers or tourists haven for the the teaching of English. Of course Thais will always require TEFL credentials and any degree albeit but they expect us being farangs to come to their country only to experience their culture and/or MOD EDIT For those of us who have spent decades here in Thailand this may come as surprising news but it is a reality of what Thais really want from us as teachers in their country. Thais do not want us to come here to make money...they only want our money!TIT  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MaiPenRai
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 390
Location: BKK
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| LOS will be nothing more than a backpackers or tourists haven for the the teaching of English. |
Yes, it always has been. saying that this is changing or a new trend is silly. No trend there. There have been and always will be low-end jobs for those looking to prolong their holidays/gap years.
| Quote: |
| Thais will always require TEFL credentials and any degree |
Strange that they DIDN'T require a degree less than 4 years ago. TEFL certificates are not required at the moment to teach legally in Thailand. A good TEFL cert is generally helpful in getting a job. However, that statement seems to indicate the trend going AWAY from "backpackers".
| Quote: |
| this may come as surprising news |
No, not surprising at all. ESL/EFL is a business in EVERY country.
| Quote: |
| what Thais really want |
That is a VERY big brush to painting a country of 66 million people with.
| Quote: |
they only want our money! |
Yep, as in any business. Many Thai nationals involved in education and EFL are motivated by money and have little regard for the well being of foreign teachers. No different than any other country from my experience.
| Quote: |
| they expect us being farangs to come to their country only to experience their culture and/or find and support an impoversihed ISAAN wife and get married |
It is unfortunate that you seem to have met a lot of bad people in Thailand and have a very negative image of Thai people. Perhaps it is time to move on. The "wife" comment doesn't even warrant a reply.
There are bad people everywhere in the world mate.
Try getting out of Bangkok and tourist areas and meet some of the millions of extremely kind, generous and honest Thai people.
| Quote: |
| Thais wll be lowering and lowering their ESL wages |
Wages haven't been getting lower. They have either been stagnant or raising slightly in some cases. Take a look at the rest of the world. No difference in most cases.
| Quote: |
| this is the future trend of the TEFL indutry here |
Always has been and will be low-end jobs, schools, recruiters that offer crappy packages and wages. This is not a future trend. I beleive using the term "volunteer" is very misleading for new teachers looking to this site for honest advice. There are many volunteer organizations operating in Thailand. There are many low-end low paying jobs in Thailand. There are many mid-tier jobs and schools that offer decent-good packages and salaries. There are only a handful of great International and private schools that offer amazing packages and salaries.
In the past 5-10 years, the TREND has been towards the low to mid-tier range International schools and mid-high tier government schools. Take a look at how many low-mid tier International/private schools have opened in the past 10 years. English Programs skyrocketed in the past 10 years. These places often offer slightly above average salaries and packages. Much more than a "volunteer" would make. In fact I beleive the definition of "volunteer" means that you make NO money. Many language schools have gone out of business or have lost a lot of business.
The only difference is that the poor and low end schools now want in the game, but can't or aren't willing to offer the packages, thus more low end jobs, BUT that doesn't mean there are fewer decent jobs.
The ESL/EFL industry has boomed in the past 10 years. There are simply more people trying to join the EFL world. Recently a lot of this is due to decreased opportunities or lost jobs back home.
ESL/EFL has always been typically a job with a 2 year or so life span. As it is has grown in the past 10 years, the opportunity for a career in TEFL has become a reality for some. Still its generally a short term type job for the majority.
I was a recruiter for different companies (still do some PT). I have done done and still do consulting and training for schools and local and provincial admins. I know quite a few foreign managers who are responsible for hiring.
Let's try to keep this forum focused on the facts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
