Job Discussion Forums

daCabbie · Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 244

Will someone please make a sticky out of this topic.

I would like to respond, but the same question comes up every two weeks.

I hear the same arguments again and again. None of us has the correct answer. The only one who can say if the OP is right for their students is the FAO or the person who is willing to hire him.

China is a training ground. Its training for the teachers, training for the FAO's and training for the students. This is not the pinnacle of English education.

General Franco · Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 22

Indeed I will not tell you to get a degree. You can safely ignore any advice to the contrary. There are no Chinese lawyers posting here, so forget (with one caveat) about what anyone tells you about legal requirements.

Many schools have the connections to get you a business (F) visa and be hassle-free. Some schools have even better connections and will get you a Z visa. Some schools have no connections and you run the risk of being fined/deported.

You can very easily get a job during your gap year. You may or may not get a work permit, but that's only an issue in schools that are not well connected. In some schools/places/provinces it is completely unimportant.

Come here and enjoy yourself! I would highly recommend Yangshuo as a place to spend a year before you go to uni. There are 5 or 6 language schools which will pay you around 4000 RMB plus free food Monday to Friday and free accommodation. Not a lot, but you'll have a nice life.

Talk to other teachers in the school before you commit yourself - you'll be fine.

Sure, you may have all kinds of problems, but you will be surrounded by other people who can ease things for you.

It's a marvellous country!

oldboy · Joined: 03 Jan 2010 Posts: 38

Thanks guys, it's nice we're finally starting to take steps away from this kinda prejudice against degreeless TESOL teachers Smile

I've been talking with some employers, but as I'm sure many of you have experienced.. It's a long process trying e-mailing to people in opposite time zones

But despite this, some employers seem very keen which is a good sign.

Big thank you to all those that have commented with positive info so far!

Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

Well, first of all, let me say that I do not in any way doubt that it's possible to find China ESL employment with no degree.

Also, I do not necessarily believe in the value of a bunch of degrees and certificates and so on. Especially advanced degrees.

But the thing is, the requirements say you have to have the bachelor's degree to teach English in China. So if you teach without the degree, then either you've been dishonest or someone has been dishonest on your behalf. And that's called unethical.

Is it really worth it to be unethical in order to get a job? I mean, by being unethical, we could get a lot of things that we want in life. If you want a pack of gum, you could just steal it from the store. If you want money, you could rob a bank.

As for me personally, if I knew I had been unethical, I think I would feel too guilty to even leave my apartment and teach my classes.

Best to stick to the straight an narrow. Go get the degree so that you know you're dealing honestly and not being immoral.

oldboy · Joined: 03 Jan 2010 Posts: 38

General Franco · Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 22

The Ever-changing Cleric · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 1523

if the students i have are any indication, most chinese students dont care if their teachers have a bona fide degree, a degree from photoshop U, or no degree at all, as long as they learn something useful from the person standing at the front of the classroom.

silkbomber · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 14

I am resisting commenting on any of the other posts here and will stick the topic.

Your best course of action is to find details of private language schools all over china and apply direct. If you are not fussy about which city you live in you shouldn't have too much problem. I wouldn't reccomend coming here on an L visa an trying to get it changed to a Z visa, nor would I reccomend teaching on either and L visa or an F visa.

I don't have a degree, (half-way through it actually) but have been offered several jobs in smaller cities. I am being fussy however about where I want to teach. Be aware though the lifestyle in these smaller cities is very different from living somewhere like Shanghai or Guangzhou.

You probably wont have any luck getting a job in universities or government schools.

I suggest you go to and read through the following site, focussing on the teaching in China section.
http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/

It will give you some good, though some scary advice, on teaching here. Don't let it dissuade you, but heed the warnings it offers.

Good luck.

Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

silkbomber · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 14

I was speaking to one of the visa officers, I guess that what I would call him, in regards to Z visas to try and get some information. What I was clearly told is that is fine for a company and even a school to organise a work visa for people with out a degree. They do however have to show valid reasons why that person is the most suitable for job and that the Visa, according to him, MUST be applied for from the applicants home country. In terms of teaching, as i stated in my past post. You have pretty much no chance of getting a job in a public university or government schools. This office was in a smaller city and not one of the major ones. Keep that in mind.
Many language schools will be able to obtain a legitimate Z visa for you with or without a degree. It is however easier to get the Z visa with a degree.
I don't think teaching her without a degree has any to do with ethics, but ttoriel is correct in saying someone with a degree with be given preferances over you. Also without a degree your limited options mean you are more likely to recieve a lower wage, worse working conditions and higher hours.