Job Discussion Forums

[teflerlifer]

Increasingly Scot27's joke is becoming true.

I just wonder if it's the universal nature of higher education these days that all the numbskulls graduating with a 3 year degree in Bus Admin or Sociology think that $2000/$3000 a month in the ME is worth it.

It used to be the case that people got paid an ex-pat SALARY (in the ME) for the reason that leaving your home and family and coming all the way over here to do a job isn't easy and as a professional you were entitled to at least 'normal' benefits.

I now commiserate with those poor teachers in the UK state schooling system - but at least those poor creatures can live at home and have a semi-normal life.

I picture myself going for a job interview in 10 years time at HCT for $4000 a month (no accommodation), and having a 100m meter sprint with 20-somethings to see who is 'fittest' for the job !!!

[Sheikh N Bake]

When I was with HCT in Dubai 1997-2002 (and Abu Dhabi, PI, 2002-2004) it was well known that freshly minted UK schoolteachers were fond of coming to the Emirates and working for Dh.7,000 ($1900) with the usual package of free housing of some sort, tickets etc. Maybe they could save $10,000 a year if they were careful (after the first year, which is always more costly). I dunno...I suppose that might have seemed like a lot to some 25-year-old newbies.

[omar08]

I meant internationally recognized one like CELTA for example.

[teflerlifer]

You would HOPE that graduates from the UK are more discerning.

They have to pay for their university years (I was lucky and graduated free of charge in 1998) now.

Average student loans for students in both the UK and USA/Canada are now around $20-30,000 but often are double that.

Recent graduates should be demanding a lot more to become English teachers. I am not an expert on the Middle East having only spent 1 year there but unfortunately the situation is the same in Korea.

In societies where everyone is a graduate actually holding these pieces of paper are almost worthless.

Time for a debate on THE VALUE OF "HIGHER" education perhaps? I just wish my old mum, had told me to take a proper apprenticeship in plumbing and carpentry. Now I would be a 'skilled' professional earning (self-employed of course) at least 4000 pounds a month and often a lot more.

Unlike in teaching, if you are GOOD at your job there will always be people willing to pay your prices despite all the cowboys out there. Wish we could say the same for TESOL.

South Korea now has 82% of its population graduating from university or college - I don't know figures from other countries but it seems uni has become an obligatory part of life's journey. Never mind that so many degree holders cannot possibly all get white collar jobs.

Perhaps that is why the TEFL world is full of 20 somethings willing to work for 'peanuts' everywhere you look, and hence dragging down wages and benefits for everyone.

[usa_in_gulf]

veiledsentiments wrote:

[Cleopatra]

[teflerlifer]

I think Cleopatra, TEFL backpackers are slogging it out as we speak in numerous institutions around the gulf with a BA and TEFL/TESOL/CELTA cert, and no experience. Personally speaking I started out as a TEFL backpacker and like so many of us 'woke up' and realised we were 5-6 years in..... with no prospects of a job at home.

Furthermore, I would be willing to bet that in 20 years time wages and salaries will have further diminshed to even more atrocious levels as these backpackers continue to accept first face offer.

And as more and more single people find that TEFL gives them an adequate wage to 'survive'. These single people will accept a salary that no person with a family would.

I just feel sorry (for myself) that chances of having more than 1 (or 0!!) child are virtually impossible in the current situation in worldwide TEFL.

I am (certainly) qualified to speak about South Korea. When Top 10 universities in Seoul (one of most expensive cities in the world for housing) are quite happy to pay less than $3000 (no accommodation) for a Masters in TESOL + all the trimmings you know -the goose hasn't just been cooked it has been shot through the ozone layer.

It is impossible to compete with younger people in this kind of job market.
Degree inflation also means that soon every lout or carpetbagger from Inverness to El Paso will have an MA IN TEFL/EFL/TESOL

Caveat Emptor - Your MA could soon be worthless (or just another in a pile of hundreds).

LOL -on the other hand, what other profession allows us to just up stakes and travel freely around the world? Just wish i had done more of that!!

[Cleopatra]

[teflerlifer]

lol - as I admitted myself; I entered it as a backpacker.

I didn't really think about the lucrative part!! Funny thing, when we are young and single money doesn't mean all that much. It is only now with the MA/CELTA and 10 years experience with a (proposed!!) possible future family I view the future with doubts. Perhaps even more after reading the threads on this board!!! Just where are the good jobs ?

Yes of course I will be 'Okay'. I was fortunate enough to buy a property in the UK when prices are sober (now they are insane). So at least that will provide a pension of sorts. Provided of course I do not return to the UK.

Yes, I know there are jobs out there paying more than a dustbin man in Islington/Glasgow.

But Cleo - I will still bet you! In 20 years that pool of good 'jobs' to support a family that you speak of will have shrunk even further.

I think it is just me (and I am sure a few others) -coming from an upper middle class background of the UK. A job paying (with total benefits etc etc) less than 30,000 UK OR $50,000 is NOT enough to bring up a family, buy a family house in your home country (or keep paying a mortgage) and save the required minimum $250,000 for retirement.
Providing we are all agreed that we are professionals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If of course we accept that teaching English is just an occupation on par with being a Chef or what not, then wow, I am so lucky to get a job in Baku University for 1400 pounds a month or Salahah Economics College for 1200 pounds a month! I mean gosh! Wow! If I save every penny and never ever go out for a meal, and buy the special 2 for 1 Diapers Deal we might, just might have the choice at the end of the year whether to invest $4000 in Johnny's college fund or blow the lot on 5 days at Euro-Disney.

Most of us on this board aren't young. Many of us have spent years earning relatively small sums of money. Plus 10 years experience? Universities, though don't want to pay us a proper wage. Qassim Uni today was offering $2700 -$4000 for a native MA blah-blah teacher. I have seen many other jobs in KSA looking for professionals and offering the same.

As a Brit - the hardest thing --- I automatically divide the dollar at the 2:1 exchange rate!!!

It's just not Cricket old boy!

[Cleopatra]

[h-train]

[Sheikh N Bake]

[Sheikh N Bake]

[scot47]

He is an Americanised Glaswegian. Rather like Billy Connolly.

[teflerlifer]

If ye liken me tae Billy ah got nae probs wi tha big man !

I like to employ word usage of our American brothers from time to time.

Wouldn't like to come across as a 'superior' Brit after all.

Sigh -My wife is a Korean English teacher.

Last time I checked, in Dubai she could probably get a job in a Beauty/ Nail Shop.

I did think about her working for a Korean company over there, but she adamantly doesn't want to be an office worker! And who can blame her? I am sure many of us decided the office world was 'poisonous' to our personal growth or very unsatisfying.

It looks like I will remain in Korea a wee while longer. I did see an Aramco recruiter advertising for $60,000 + a year, but do not want to become a 'single', frustrated, lonely, married male in the KSA.

From colleagues who have worked there I know 'stir' craziness can set in rapidly.

I also hear that many talk to sid.