Job Discussion Forums

[Chancellor]

[Chancellor]

[johnslat]

Dear Chancellor,

"But that's true of just about any job, really. Superior qualifications set you apart from the rest of the pack."

Any yet, there are those who don't see it that way, who seem to think that it's the TEACHERS with MAs who are responsible for the way the EFL world works in many places - which is why we were replying to this:

"I love this long held dysphemism "backpacker" to divorce them from us.
I got it. I'm to blame for my lot. All that I've seen in all my years in ESL, would have been poofed away by an B.Ed or M.Ed. Well, here in China this higher plane of ESL-ism would shrink the pool of schools from a guesstimate of 300,000 to about 50.
If I had only made enough money to afford more education...I get it ! If I had had a B.Ed/M.Ed, I could have earned enough to...huh?
A tad smug ?"

Regards,
John

[Chancellor]

[fluffyhamster]

[johnslat]

Dear Chancellor,

I'd say the master's degree is most certainly becoming devalued, no question about it. After all, today, a bachelor's degree is realistically the equivalent (in terms of job hunting) of what a high school diploma was, say,
sixty years ago.

The more people who achieve advanced degrees, the more "devalued" they become. Call it "degree inflation."

Regards,
Inflated John

[fluffyhamster]

I don't think I'm nearly old enough to start complaining too vociferously about the devaluing of qualifications (though I will maintain that the education sector has certainly been over-expanded in the UK, to compensate for the lack of other sectors in the economy (the irresponsibility of encouraging such student debt when there was little chance of it being paid off without the need for selling kidneys!)).

I guess the most depressing thing about all this qualifications-chasing and "raising standards" (generally, not just or so much in ELT, which thankfully has never been quite the box-ticking quangoizing government's preserve) is that everybody always has expectations of you, as if you'd never ever have any expectations of yourself.

In me that message from on high elicits puzzlement and perhaps mild dissent ("With all due respect..."), but in others (the majority?) I suspect it breeds cynicism at the very least, if not genuine resent (Edit: oops resentment) and militant tendencies - but then, they've then "put something in" - 'More, much more!', they often indignantly shout... (but again, not so much on Dave's - as if ELTers have too much a sense of entitlement!).

Another reason for not doing an MA is that the places where the money is better e.g. Gulf or Japanese unis, may not be generally attractive work environments for many, even if certain aspects of the actual individual work involved were interesting enough.

[J.M.A.]

@Fluffy,

An MA is not necessarily that expensive in terms of $$$. You may also learn a lot from simply rereading and examining what you think you already know. Finally, you may be required to actually do some research and put your thoughts onto paper, which can serve as a transformative experience in itself.

[Teacher in Rome]

Chancellor: I partly agree with what you say, but in most jobs, you only realise you're underqualified when you've been made redundant / want a career change and realise your skills set is ten years old.
On the other hand, some degrees / quals are so prestigious that they open doors anyway. MBA from Harvard - come right in.

There are most definitely alternatives to the qualifications hamster wheel. How many of the big names in EFL have MAs? How many of the authors, industry thought-leaders have all these qualifications? You can still have a great career in EFL outside teaching institutions. Write materials, get involved in e-learning, community learning, state teaching, present at conferences... Follow some of the great EFL educators on Twitter, write your own blog, develop your PLN - the "entry barriers" have truly never been so low. (And, speaking personally, I have never come across such a kind, welcoming group of people as those on Twitter or actively blogging.)

[fluffyhamster]

[J.M.A.]

[fluffyhamster]

Hi JMA. Yeah, I was thinking to myself between that last post and now that that sort of stuff over on the Teacher forums isn't quite MA stuff, but Snog Marry Avoid (with Dogface from Big Brother, and Kandy Rain from X-Factor ) sort of got me distracted from returning to edit it. The point I was trying to make however is that one can have quite wide-ranging interests without the need to be always prodded into studying them or indeed whatever one's little mind desires. (I certainly didn't need to be prodded to want to research how Dogface looked in Pixie Lott-style black short hotpants ).

Regarding Discourse Analysis, IMHO the essentials of that could and should be covered at cert level (but I suppose in limited respects they are e.g. choices between apparently functionally overlapping tense-aspect forms), whilst mentioning methodology raises again the question, what vast differences are there between 'lower-level' and 'higher-level' methodology (or is that too naive and general a question to ask?).

As for applying theory to practice, most of the SLA that I have read basically reaches the conclusion that (more or less average forms of) instruction seems to help (with test scores or whatever) in at least the short term, so I probably haven't been under a complete misapprehension all these years that my students have at least sometimes benefitted in some small way from my teaching. I still don't think a student can beat serious study/preparation-for-real-life-practice alone at home with good teach-yourself materials, grammars and dictionaries though.

Anyway, I imagine that the only way one will ever really see an absolutely better method B as opposed to A is when they develop some kind of instantaneous neural upload a la The Matrix, in which case it would be the software rather than the hardware that would be of most interest (and it's the quality of the "software" - input, upload etc - that I'm usually banging on about even pre-Matrix/pre-as-straightforward-an-interface!). In the meantime I believe that you can have quality theory-neutral materials (in fact, higher quality might be proportional to how theory-free), and that B can follow A almost effortlessly, inexorably, simply by a consideration of "logical/progressive" development (and these notions, successfully applied, predate modern-pushy SLA theory), at least for things that are more 'simple matters of fact' (e.g. basic pronunciation; and in the case of Chinese, the apparently complex graphical composition and nature of its orthography (i.e. Sinographs); common monosyllables, then bisyllabics, then fuller phrases etc).

[Pikgitina]

How people acquire/learn a second language has always interested me, especially the role of the teacher in that process.

At the end of the day, having been a DoS and observed many teachers, it seems obvious that students who want to learn the language, coupled with the motivation to actually do it, i.e. learn it, are the successful ones. I have seen teachers teach in such a non-current-ESL-style way, but the students loved those teachers and perhaps because of that, were mostly anxiety free (low affective filters?) and improved rapidly. Yet, they didn't use pair work a lot, no concept checking, no drilling, no touchy-feely putting the student in control, etc. Not that I don't feel that these things are important (in fact I was horrified when I first observed those teachers), but if the teacher doesn't need them and the students are a.) happy, b.) appearing to be improving and c.) have only the highest praise for the teacher, does the methodology (or lack of it) really matter?

People have been learning foreign languages successfully for centuries, if not millenia - most often probably in spite of the teacher.

I remember when I was studying German, I often learned things from my professor's speech, regardless of what he was talking about. He may have been talking about Mephistopheles or the Plusquam Perfekt, but I was thinking "so that's how you say X or Y". He, of course, didn't have a clue what was going on in my head. So I guess we learn because of the teacher, too.

[china-1994]

YES...I was defensive,and truly sorry about that.

I am an old poster,but under a new name....

I have a B.A.(5 years) ,an M.Ts.(2 years), Diploma Hotel/Restaurant mgt.(1 year),diploma in Investment Mgt.(1year) and the TEFL (6 months) Certificate in Barbering (9 months) I had mentioned this before under my old name.
Also 1 years(3 credits) in B.Ed,but as it turned out it was a B.Ed for adults who were working or teaching in a field,but required/desired a teaching degree.hence, if I had completed this degree I would not qualify to teach K-12.
bottom line, is that I am tired of FURTHER education right now,AND, I am unable to afford further education: having just paid off 10 years of education.

These jobs I am doing...Why can't I just do my best to educate them,and be done with it. Why is it ever so dodgy-it is possible to educate AND make money.
Cheers,
WW

[china-1994]

Seeing as I've encountered so many with monumental degree in my gazillion years in Beijing.
My 5 year B.A was due to my inability to secure a major. In the end,my major included: Psychology and Philosophy, with minors in Religious Studies and Anthropology.Almost a triple major.
My Master's degree specialized in Christology with my thesis: The Jewishness of Jesus.