Job Discussion Forums

[Cool Teacher]

Tish and fipsy!

There si no need to feel the need to have to describe where your heritidge is. You can just say your American and no body needs to make a big deal about being korean.

So silly rubbish.

[starteacher]

if you say so

[Bread]

No, I thought about saying the same thing as starteacher. Any time an Asian meets an ethnically Asian foreigner, they need to know what their ethnicity is. This guy will have a LOT of people asking him if he's Japanese, probably shortly after meeting them. It's not some kind of sensitive personal information over here like touchy Americans might consider it. If you get all defensive with "I'd prefer not to say," then the person who was just trying to make conversation with you will probably be really confused and maybe feel bad because they've offended you but they don't really understand how or why.

Maybe you'll face some disappointment when people find out that you're Korean rather than Japanese. A lot of Japanese don't like Koreans (though, as far as I've seen, this isn't nearly as vitriolic as the Koreans' hate for Japanese). I suppose you could lie and say that you're Japanese. But I think the best thing to do would be to just be open and honest when people ask and try to show them that Koreans are just regular people, too. Because even when they know that you were born and raised in America, a lot of people are going to think of you as Korean, as well.

[mracine]

Thanks for your posts. I guess the general answer would be that race shouldn't be too big of a factor for me. Which is good.

For those of you wondering; while in Asia (Korea/Thailand/Loas), I'm often asked where I'm from. I tell them America. They're usually confused and upset with this answer. I then have to tell them I was born in Korea. Then they usually tell me that I look like Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Thai/Loas/etc. Which I usually smile and try to change the subject.

I often get the same thing in America. I will have a conversation with someone at the bar. If the conversation last longer than five minutes, I will almost always get asked what race I am. I find the question strange because I never asked anyone unless I know they aren't American. Regardless of my Mid-west accent, they can't help but inquire.

The last time I visited Michigan, I was confronted by several people who told me that I looked like Hiro Nakamura (from Heroes). I would be grateful if their comparison was even close. Maybe they think Matt Parkman and Noah Bennet look alike too. I do find it weird that complete strangers had to tell me this.

If you haven't been to Korea, some (or more accurately "most") Koreans have a Japan complex. If they haven't been to Japan, they will tell you how evil Japan is. I should know. Several of my students will bring it up in class without me asking. However, the few Koreans that have traveled there don't seem to have the same opinion.

I know that there has been some conflict between Japan and Korea about land and the sincerity of Japan's apology for what they did in WWII. I have been to a few places dedicate in reminding us how horrible Japan was/is.

This lead to me to believe that there was some animosity for Korean as well in Japan. However, Japan being the aggressor probably can forget how they acted in the war faster. Travelling around Asia you find that Korea is in a long list of countries that are pissed at Japan.

Anyways, I'm getting off topic. Thanks again for your posts.

[Glenski]

Based on my experience in Japan, I'd say that if there was any animosity about WWII, it is from the Koreans or Chinese, not the Japanese.

[yangyoseop]

Japan likes to think that WWII-era Japan is a totally different country from the one they're from. You'd be amazed at how many Japanese people I saw strolling around Pearl Harbor without a shred of solemness or reverence.

[nateliu99]

As an Asian American who has been teaching in Shanghai for the last year and sending out resumes to places in South Korea and Japan, I think the fact that you are Asian in appearance probably will hurt your chances in most countries in Asia if you want to teach ESL specifically

I have really good qualifications, but was only able to find this job with this company in Shanghai because a friend of a friend is the owner. All other companies either wouldn't give me the time of day or would be interested right until I sent my picture.

In the last few months I have been looking for another job, sending many resumes to South Korean programs as well as Chinese schools. I flat out just asked them if my Asian appearance will somehow hinder me, and at least 2 or 3 programs were just honest and said YES and I needn't bother applying.

My friend at the same company is Japanese American. She interviewed with several English companies that told her they wanted "a real foreigner."

My aunt works as a teacher assistant at Taipei American School. She has told me that they don't like to hire American born Chinese. I believe she said they have one ABC on staff, and many of the parents are not happy about that.

Now all of that being said, maybe Japan is different. I traveled in Japan for a week and was amazed by how friendly the people were, and I feel they know a lot about America. I think that the ignorant attitude that you have to be white to be a real foreigner is only held by countries that are ignorant about foreingers, such as mainland China.

[Glenski]

It is true that some employers are gun-shy about hiring people with Asian faces, even though the applicants are from native English speaking countries.

The onus is on the applicant to show that they are indeed just as qualified for the job as a non-Asian face.
1) Tell them you are American or Canadian or British, etc. Do not refer to yourself as Asian-American or other hyphenated title.

2) Do not refer to your heritage as second generation or third generation. It may only add to the confusion.

3) If you are adopted or naturalized, declare that.

4) Explain that all of your education has been in that native English speaking country.

5) Strengthen your point by telling them that your Asian face is actually an advantage for the students who still disbelieve that pure English can come out of an Asian face. That is, you may look "like them", but you sound like a "real foreigner".

As for statements that say "I have really good qualifications, but was only able to find this job with this company in Shanghai because a friend of a friend is the owner " are meaningless without knowing further what was involved in the application process. Namely, who else applied? Was it a rural or urban employer? Did the employer explicitly say they wanted a caucasian over you, or are you just guessing?

And, perhaps there were many others with equally good qualifications, but it came down to personality or a demo lesson performance, as is the case for many job interviews, not your Asian face. Competition is high in Japan now, so you have to make your case even stronger than before.

[seklarwia]

[nateliu99]

Glenski,

You are definitely looking at this from a very logical point of view and you are definitely trying to give the employer the benefit of the doubt. But I think that is wholly unnecessary, at least when it comes to China. These schools and private English teaching companies are completely shaped to the will of the parents or anyone else they think they can get to sign up for classes. This company I am at is Kid Castle in urban areas of Shanghai. When I first started working there, the Chinese staff was constantly having to explain to parents that I am an actual American. To Chinese, they don't quite understand this concept that you can be a foreigner and have Chinese descent. They have a term "mei ji hua ren", but as the OP stated, they get very confused by this. And my GOD do they stare at you.

Have you been to China? Or Shanghai specifically? To give you an idea of the backwards-ness here, people piss on the streets, throw their trash everywhere, they put their toddlers in little jumpsuits with holes cut at the crotch so they can hold them over public trashcans as they crap, when they want to blow their noses they just plug up one nostril and do it without any tissue, when a white person is around, EVERYONE stares, i have heard such amazingly racist comments about people of just about every ethnicity, and they are not isolated comments, they are just common thoughts, they throw trash at and poke animals with sticks at zoos, they illegally use sewage oil with carcinogens that has been "purified" in many restaurants or street stands.....if for some reason you feel like you must put the benefit of the doubt on the Chinese here who make the decisions, I am telling you, that is completely unnecessary.

Me saying that I have really good qualifications, I do mean that, but last time I went into detail about that, one of the other posters got extremely angry at me and said i was "beating my chest" or whatever. Suffice it to say I am a great deal more qualified than most people applying for the English teaching private company jobs.

Most of the times, demo classes are not considered, oftentimes, no real interview is given. I've never done an actual demo class for anything out here yet. That is not how many of the overseas hires work. They just look at your resume, have a conversation with you, and then decide to pull the trigger or not. This is basically like the "McDonald's" or English teaching. I know this because i am friends with the bosses at this company, and my friend is also the manager at another famous company. This is just how it works. And yes, they have both told me that Asian Americans are just a harder sell to the parents than white foreigners so they are a little more hesitant.

At my company specifically, two of my managers, and many of my coworkers do not have even undergraduate degrees, but they are.... you guessed it...... white. They themselves have told me that their whiteness very much worked to their advantage.

All the stuff that you say that we need to explain to the employers....Every American born or Canadian born Asian tries to say exactly that every single time. I'm telling you, it just doesn't work in a lot of cases. While it is not impossible to find a job, it is much more difficult being an ABC getting an ESL job then a white person in China

Now all this being said, Japan might be different. But China is how I am describing it. There are many things that are dumb, unbelievable, and just plain outrageous in the culture here, at least from a Western standpoint. This is still an extremely prejudice society especially towards foreigners. Many people in the eastern part of Shanghai (Pudong), rarely see foreigners. When they do, many of them will walk right up to you and just stare......for like a whole minute. Since I look Chinese, I don't get this, until I speak English. Then they stare really hard and start talking in Chinese and try to figure out if you are Japanese or Korean. They almost never guess American.

It sounds like you are thinking maybe I am just unqualified, maybe I am just a bad teacher, maybe I am just an *beep* during an interview, and then I am trying to blame my lack of results on my "Asian-ness." That is definitely something that could be true, but I think it would then be a huge coincidence that other ABCs or CBCs then go through the same thing, we hear complaints or constant queries from parents who want to unenroll from our classes because we are not "real foreigners" and hearing from the actual bosses/managers of two big companies here that they are more wary of hiring Asian looking foreigners....That would have to be a big coincidence don't you think? Again, it is not impossible to find an ESL job in China as an ABC, but if you are trying to say that the playing field is completely level for all foreigners...it's not....at least when it comes to China... I don't know about japan

[Glenski]

seklarwia and nataliu,

You are right. I am trying to think of this in a logical fashion. If that doesn't work in China, all I can say is this: teachers must try to change the way employers, students, and parents perceive things, or they have to suffer with the inherent discriminatory attitudes (or don't go there). I don't expect everyone there to see things logically, but I just tried to offer ways around the problem.

Good luck to all in China. (I have never been there, known only a few Chinese--some grad students who came to Japan, and a couple of coworkers in the USA.)

nateliu,
You wrote:

[nateliu99]

thanks for the suggestions

At our company we always speculate how long it will take for the culture to change, not just towards ABCs, but a lot of things, like how the local staff does business, or how the parents view things, but i think general consensus is it will take a long time, foreigners have only been here for a few decades, the media is censored, and the government makes it really difficult for people to leave the country for long periods of time, they like have to pass special tests or something i think

With Japan, I am approaching the interview stages with Westgate and American Language school, I'm pretty sure they have figured out that I am ABC, so I've already gotten farther than I have gotten with almost any company in China

[starteacher]

China - now that's different.