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Transcripts - required to be signed and sealed??
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seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:42 am Post subject:

Kionon wrote:

Apsara wrote:

Kionon wrote:

especially given how much trouble my Canadian friends have with getting a visa on a 3-year, but internationally recognised, BA that is equal to my own 4-year BA

This is odd. I, like most New Zealanders and Australians, have a 3-year BA and I have never heard of this causing trouble for anyone. I was under the impression that as long as the piece of paper says "Bachelor of ....." and is from an accredited institution that Japan Immigration isn't particularly interested in how long it took you to get it.

This is absolutely how it should be, legally. But every single one of my Canadian coworkers has had static coming in versus the rest of us (my Aussie coworkers did not have an issue either). I've not seen their degrees, but I wonder if it has something to do with some tradition of how the text on the degree is organised? I don't know. I only know that each time we have a Canadian, immigration wants more documentation and takes longer trying to confirm that the BA is a BA is a BA. Patently ridiculous, but I've seen patently ridiculous in person so...

Oh, remember too, different immigrations offices act differently, as do individual officers. It may just be my local office hasn't got their act together when it comes to CA degrees. I haven't a clue, but it's more than just a few cases. It's every single time.

I can see this happening. I have a four year degree but they wouldn't accept my official trancripts because my uni only prints the month and year of graduation but they wanted the exact date printed and it didn't help that my uni printed the exact date that the decision I had fulfilled my degree requirements was reached which was months before the graduation date.
So with the Candians it probably something really small that they don't like or simply can't make heads or tails of (afterall the English ability of immigration officers can varies tremendously).

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:52 am Post subject:

seklarwia wrote:

Glenski wrote:

seklarwia wrote:

You employer is going to want to see your transcripts before they take them to immigration

Not always. Case by case.

Responses like that only serve to further confuse newbies.

How on earth would that confuse anyone with even half a brain?! Smile

Employers may or may not even ask for transcripts. Immigration certainly don't care. They just want proof of graduation. I know I've only ever supplied a letter from the uni on letterhead confirming graduation. They never once saw a transcript.

Quote:

Even JET requires you to do the same to make 3 copies to attach to each of the packs which they of course receive long before they even interview candidates.

JET doesn't require transcripts for Immigration. It might be common for employers it might not. IMO, Glenski's comment was accurate: deliver what the employer asks for, nothing more.

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:57 am Post subject:

seklarwia wrote:

So with the Candians it probably something really small that they don't like or simply can't make heads or tails of (afterall the English ability of immigration officers can varies tremendously).

The fact that Canadia offers both 3 and 4 year undergrad degrees might have something to do with it.

And before the pedants leap in, Immigration don't give a damn about the degree. It's the Ministry of Justice that issues the COE's is the one that is giving grief. (I'm assuming here that renewal is a simple process for Canadiacs as well as everyone else. But then, it is Japan...)

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:07 am Post subject:

To say that all employers require transcripts is false. They don't all do. That is why I wrote "case by case". It's not a hard concept to wrap one's head around and be confused.

Not all require transcripts. Many, yes. All, no.

As for this...

Quote:

But more importantly and more relevant to what the OP is asking, I have never heard of one instance when immigration has requested sealed transcripts for a COE. Have you?

This was not part of my earlier post. And, yes, I have read occasional reports (not many) where a person did not submit an original diploma and was asked to show sealed transcripts. To be totally honest, I don't recall if it was the employer or immigration asking.

Heck, more than one uni I applied to wanted those. Immigration, no. Sealed or otherwise, for my original work visa, renewed work visa, spouse visa or permanent resident status.

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:35 am Post subject:

G Cthulhu wrote:

seklarwia wrote:

So with the Candians it probably something really small that they don't like or simply can't make heads or tails of (afterall the English ability of immigration officers can varies tremendously).

The fact that Canadia offers both 3 and 4 year undergrad degrees might have something to do with it.

So does the UK. Most undergrad degrees are 3 years. Mine was a sandwich course that included a compulsory year abroad in the 3rd year. That doesn't normally cause a problem.
I was actually told that that was why my transcripts couldn't be accepted and why I had to get a letter from my uni instead.

Quote:

JET doesn't require transcripts for Immigration. It might be common for employers it might not. IMO, Glenski's comment was accurate: deliver what the employer asks for, nothing more.

You are the JET insider. What do they need the transcripts for then? Would assume that is what they want them for since they never get the original cert (not that it would be possible for final year students to get them in time).

http://www.jet-uk.org/application/appoutline.html

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:29 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

Simply stating "case by case" doesn't give any info. Of course, newbies are then going to wonder what is needed in the other cases, or does that mean I don't need any proof at all with some employers? The former question would be quite relevant to the OP who is not currently living in the UK and therefore is going to find it just that bit harder, costly and far more time consuming to arrange for other pieces of paperwork if what he has isn't already sufficient.

I wrote initially I was given three options to prove I had a degree. I'm only talking about transcripts because that is what the OP asked about quite specifically as that is what he has on him now.

So I'll rephrase it for you:
Employers are going to ask to see your proof of graduation before they send it along to immigration when they apply for your COE. If you choose to use transcripts, they do not need to be signed, sealed, security taped or anything else.

The point is the OP is trying to make sure that immigration is not going to make the amazingly anal demands that the Korean authorities do in order to get a visa.
As you do not have the experience of living and working in foreign countries other than Japan, have not had the pleasure of experiencing the rollarcoaster ride that can be other visa systems and seem to forget what it was like to be new and not the expert on Japan you are today, I do not think you truely appreciate how some people just want a nice clear answer when there is one to be had.

And as I have already said, the OP is talking about things required for his first visa. He is not renewing, or applying for a spouse, etc. In order to get his COE he needs to prove he has a degree.

Quote:

Heck, more than one uni I applied to wanted those. Immigration, no. Sealed or otherwise, for my original work visa,

I'm assuming that you handed over something else to prove you had a degree and you're not implying that you never needed to even for your first work visa... see it's the fact that you don't always include all the details that can be confusing.

As to your sealed transcripts example, since we know that many people get work visas just fine without them, I'd say it's a safe bet that that is a employers demand not one from immigration.

Kionon

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Kyoto, Japan and Dallas, Texas

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:27 am Post subject:

seklarwia wrote:

In the US you can do a four year degree in three years, but it is still a four year degree. The vast majority of the Westerners in my area are Americans. That may be neither here nor there...

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:59 am Post subject:

Kionon wrote:

seklarwia wrote:

In the US you can do a four year degree in three years, but it is still a four year degree. The vast majority of the Westerners in my area are Americans. That may be neither here nor there...

That's not quite the same as in our case. BA/Bsc in the UK are normally 3 years. If you are on a sandwich course that has a compulsory extra year it's a 4 year course. If you don't do or don't complete the placement year you have to transfer to a regular 3 year course. For example, I was on Applied Languages which is a 4 year sandwich course. If I didn't complete an ERASMUS year in my 3rd year for whatever reason, I would have had to transfer to BA Area Studies which is a normal 3 year course.

In the UK, if you are not on a sandwich course but it is 4 years then it is likely a Masters degree. Typically only subjects where the Ba/Bsc alone in the subject would be totally useless are straight 4 year courses such as Pharmacy (bachelors in this subject are not offered because minimum pre-reg requirement is a Masters).

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:23 am Post subject:

seklarwia wrote:

Glenski wrote:

Why are you being so pedantic here? You know the situation as well as I do, and you know what "case by case" means.

It means some employers want transcripts, some don't.

Quote:

The former question would be quite relevant to the OP who is not currently living in the UK and therefore is going to find it just that bit harder, costly and far more time consuming to arrange for other pieces of paperwork if what he has isn't already sufficient.

Sorry to sound this way, but boo hoo! Any time I needed such paperwork, I did it and did not complain. It cannot cost so much that is is untenable. I'm sorry, but in the real world, people provide the documentation that is needed, and I strongly urge people living abroad to have a spare set of official transcripts on hand anyway just for the opportunity of applying for work. It does not matter how much they cost. Get them.

Quote:

So I'll rephrase it for you:
Employers are going to ask to see your proof of graduation

Thank you for rephrasing. I agree with this one, not with them always asking for transcripts. Different animal.

Quote:

before they send it along to immigration when they apply for your COE. If you choose to use transcripts, they do not need to be signed, sealed, security taped or anything else.

I would disagree that they don't need to be signed or in some other way labeled as official. Wouldn't you? Besides, if one is going to get them from the uni anyway, that's how they'll come.

Quote:

As you do not have the experience of living and working in foreign countries other than Japan, have not had the pleasure of experiencing the rollarcoaster ride that can be other visa systems and seem to forget what it was like to be new and not the expert on Japan you are today, I do not think you truely appreciate how some people just want a nice clear answer when there is one to be had.

Oh, gee, just what I wanted. To be told I'm old and decrepit and can't remember what it's like to be young and vibrant.

Quote:

And as I have already said, the OP is talking about things required for his first visa. He is not renewing, or applying for a spouse, etc. In order to get his COE he needs to prove he has a degree.

Yes, we agree on that (unless he can prove 3 years of related work experience, in which case he doesn't even need a degree).

Quote:

Heck, more than one uni I applied to wanted those. Immigration, no. Sealed or otherwise, for my original work visa,

I'm not misinforming or holding anything back. Yes, I had to show I had a degree. I did not need to show transcripts. I showed a copy of my parchment.

Stop telling people I'm misinforming or purposely confusing them. I'm not. Just ask something and I'll confirm.

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:53 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

Why are you being so pedantic here? You know the situation as well as I do, and you know what "case by case" means.

Of course I do. But you yourself have already corrected a the OP on another thread within the last 24 hrs when he misinterpreted something he had read. And do think a thread somebody would be asking about transcripts not only here but in another of the current threads if they knew the situation too? Providing newbies with yet more responses too open to interpretation is only a waste of time.

It means some employers want transcripts, some don't.

Quote:

I wasn't complaining about the process just stating facts of the matter. I personally know how difficult it can be to obtain paperwork in the UK and know that sufficient time is not what you expect. 10 working days quickly turns into months thanks to Royal Mail and uni errors. 10 working days for criminal background check turned into much longer when they decided to upgrade their systems and failed miserably. And I've been sent something from the UK that was supposed to arrive within 5-7 working days and it's been a lot longer than that already.
If you can't see how putting out statements that could be seen as something isn't needed might cause all kinds of problems when they realise they do need could lead to a lot of miss opportunities and upset... well.

Good advice. Forward planning is always good. I suppose I should be purchasing a few more sets of transcripts to be kept in their envelopes which must be signed and dated over the envelope seal. I have a set now but if I ever need to go and work in Korea I'll be screwed. Just as well I have the extra �200 to spend, because I don't live pay cheque to cheque since I don't have the likes of student loans, credit cards or other debts to pay off.

Quote:

I would disagree that they don't need to be signed or in some other way labeled as official. Wouldn't you? Besides, if one is going to get them from the uni anyway, that's how they'll come.

I don't know how things are done in the US but our transcripts do not arrive with a sign and date across the seal of the envelope to show that nobody has tampered with the contents. That is what the OP was asking about and I was answering.

Quote:

Oh, gee, just what I wanted. To be told I'm old and decrepit and can't remember what it's like to be young and vibrant.

Interesting how you interpreted what I wrote. I made no reference to your age. If I remember correctly, when I have been here as long as you I will still be in my 30s. Is that old and decrepit?

Quote:

Stop telling people I'm misinforming or purposely confusing them. I'm not. Just ask something and I'll confirm.

I did not say you were doing it on purpose. Just pointed out how it could be confusing. You are always giving out great advice but sometimes worded in ways that are open to misinterpretation or rely on pre-existing knowledge of the situation in order to fully understand.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:02 am Post subject:

Looks like we're making some headway in understanding each other. I'm glad for that.

seklarwia wrote:

Good advice. Forward planning is always good. I suppose I should be purchasing a few more sets of transcripts

This is precisely what I was driving at with the previous post. Good. Very Happy

Quote:

Some of mine are like that, some are not. I have three schools from which to order transcripts. Some enclose transcripts in separate envelopes with a stamp across the seal, others just stamp in red across the transcripts themselves that the record is official. I'm sure there are several permutations other than that.

Quote:

Oh, gee, just what I wanted. To be told I'm old and decrepit and can't remember what it's like to be young and vibrant.

Interesting how you interpreted what I wrote. I made no reference to your age.[/quote]You wrote that I "seem to forget what it was like to be new". That's why I wrote about age.

Quote:

If I remember correctly, when I have been here as long as you I will still be in my 30s. Is that old and decrepit?

I don't know how old you are now, so I can't do the math. And, heavens no! I hope 30s is not old, but I'm quite a bit older than that. Didn't even get started until I was 40-ish.

Quote:

Stop telling people I'm misinforming or purposely confusing them. I'm not. Just ask something and I'll confirm.

I did not say you were doing it on purpose. Just pointed out how it could be confusing.

[/quote]Well, that's not how it sounded initially, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. I realize that things on these boards can be misinterpreted.

Quote:

You are always giving out great advice but sometimes worded in ways that are open to misinterpretation or rely on pre-existing knowledge of the situation in order to fully understand.

If that is so, then I am open to anyone asking questions about what I wrote. I want everyone to realize that.

Quote:

I do not think you truely appreciate how some people just want a nice clear answer when there is one to be had.

Here seems to be the only case where we still differ. Let me just respond by saying that I do indeed truly, honestly, and sincerely understand and appreciate people wanting clear answers. However, I would also hope that many learn to realize that much of the time there aren't clear answers to be given.

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:29 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

seklarwia wrote:

Good advice. Forward planning is always good. I suppose I should be purchasing a few more sets of transcripts

This is precisely what I was driving at with the previous post. Good. Very Happy

My goodness. Was that.... humour? I almost feel bad for my very British sarcasm. Wink

Quote:

You wrote that I "seem to forget what it was like to be new". That's why I wrote about age.

By new I meant new to Japan. Your age isn't what matters. I was referring to how long ago it was since you were a newbie.
Even if I was 50 now, it wouldn't change the fact that I was in same boat as these newbies only a couple of years ago. There was so much info everywhere, so many things to learn and it didn't help so many people and articles were saying different things on the same issues. I signed up to ask about shoes and whether women should wear trousers or skirts! Embarassed

Only a couple of years on, I find it quite hard to believe that I found most of these things so complicated back then; they all seem quite clear and make perfect sense now. In a few more years, my perception will have changed further still and I'll likely have forgotten that I was ever asking what now already seem ridiculously simple questions.

Quote:

Very true. But in this case there is a clear answer to be had.

I guess it's because I am from the UK like the OP. It's nice that some of your uni documents come ready set for some of the more difficult countries. Ours often don't. If I ordered 4 sets of official transcripts they would come in a single unmarked envelope, just like my certificate did, for very much the same reason as bank cards don't get sent in marked envelopes. And to make things even more fun, my faculty doesn't accept card payments; I would have to get out of school much earlier to sort out a cheque from the post office. So if Japan was like Korea, many of us would be needing to put in lots of special requests that our uni's are bound to mess up first time round plus all the added complications of time and cost. The fact that the OP is currently in NZ means it's important to know exactly what he needs to ask for so that if any special requirements are in order, he can give nice clear instructions to the uni.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:32 am Post subject:

seklarwia wrote:

Quote:

Very true. But in this case there is a clear answer to be had.

No, there isn't. The fact that you and I have known people with different circumstances with regard to needed sealed/unsealed transcripts proves that.

It has nothing to do with how my American transcripts are sent vs. yours.

All the other information that you described about what it takes to get transcripts from the UK is terrific stuff and very useful.

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:56 am Post subject:

seklarwia wrote:

G Cthulhu wrote:

JET doesn't require transcripts for Immigration. It might be common for employers it might not. IMO, Glenski's comment was accurate: deliver what the employer asks for, nothing more.

Surprisingly enough Wink

transcripts are used in the selection stage.

Immigration wants to see the COE, and the MoJ want to see the degree confirmation letter from the uni so they can issue the COE.

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:54 am Post subject:

G Cthulhu wrote:

Surprisingly enough Wink

transcripts are used in the selection stage.

Immigration wants to see the COE, and the MoJ want to see the degree confirmation letter from the uni so they can issue the COE.

But graduates only need to send a copy of their certificate along with transcripts. So are they able to issue the COE without the original certificate for JETs?

Actually... the confirmation letter for current students will only prove that the person is in their final year and not that they will graduate at all. How does that work? They must have to send some sort of confirmation that they completed all their finals, right?

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