Job Discussion Forums

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

I'm saying that according to the "letter of the law", one cannot work legally in China with an L visa; that is my understanding, anyway. Therefore, IF someone decided to challenge the teacher's standing here, he WOULD be in violation of Chinese visa regs. The whole process strikes me as shifty, anyway. Why even go to the trouble of circumventing the status quo? Just get a Z visa and be done with it.

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

ForeignTrainer · Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Posts: 8

This probably needs a thread of its own. However:

Let's clear something up -

To work here legally, what's required is not a Z visa but an RP [Residence/Work permit] (as others have pointed out, the latter is often wrongly referred to as a Z visa).

Some people, schools, places etc. require you to get a Z visa first, which is later cancelled and swapped for an RP.

Depending on your qualifications, documentation, nationality, province, legal status of your school, and other things, it may be, and often is, possible to proceed directly from a tourist visa to an RP while you are inside China.

This is entirely legal and above board.

The advantages of doing this, if you are entitled to and able to are:
a) it can save time and trouble
b) it can save huge expense for teachers already here who might have to return to their home country (that would be a 13000 mile round trip and a year's savings for my colleague) in order to re-enter on the always temporary 30 day Z visa
c) it allows you to see the school for yourself before signing a contract

There is nothing at all dodgy or suspicious about this procedure. Some schools just don't realise it's possible, and it isn't always available to some nationalities, but it is far and away the nicest option for many teachers.

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

Agree.

I read something recently (it may have been on Middle Kingdom Life) about Chinese law, and it suggested that law is certainly not absolute as we understand it in the West. It is merely a tool used and interpreted according to needs and 'social harmony'. This explains the inconsistencies between provinces, school, and even individual cases. If 'social harmony' means having teachers on F visa's, or changing to RP's in-country...then Im sure its OK.

I actually house shared with an American guy in my last job, and at the end of the year there was an issue with his school, and he was caught working on an L visa. The result of this was he and his employer had a ticking off at the local PSB office, and after their apologies, he was granted an F visa and told to go back to work.

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

Where I come from, in order to enter China with the intention to WORK, one is required by the consulates to obtain a Z visa before entering.

However,

Tourist Visa (L Visa) is issued to an alien who comes to China for sightseeing or visiting family members or friends or for other personal affairs. [From the Chinese Consulate in the U.S.]

If one were to press the letter of the law, one would have to take into account that what is expressed in the regulation is intent.

I am by far no expert in Chinese law. Others have mentioned the importance of guanxi in the mix. Some westerners enter China sideways and manage to obtain residence permits without the benefit of a Z visa.

To state categorically that "it is entirely legal and above board [sic]" is to do a disservice to those who are in their home countries and want to work in China legally. Not every FAO or PSB will agree with the above-quoted statement. For every story of an FT having been granted a residence permit after having arrived in China on an L or F visa, there are also other stories of those who arrived in China and gotten jobs, but were NOT granted a residence permit. Sure, they got jobs, but when they wanted to move on to another school after having successfully completed their contracts, they were refused residence permits.

You also state: Depending on your qualifications, documentation, nationality, province, legal status of your school, and other things, it may be, and often is, possible to proceed directly from a tourist visa to an RP while you are inside China.

And how is the prospective FT to know any of this until he arrives? Here, you are using, um, wiggle words. The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.

Foreign Trainer, I see that this is your first post to the forum. Welcome to Dave's ESL Cafe, where not everyone will agree with you, everyone has different experiences, all the men are strong, all the women are good-looking, and all of the children are above-average.