Job Discussion Forums

[wailing_imam]

I agree with Hod.

WI
BA (Hons) Soc. Anthropology

[Perilla]

[Hod]

Like all engineers, I guess I will have to lump it then

I�m going to be specific now, because I never studied Maths, Physics or Botany, but I did study Engineering.

What do you think Engineering undergrads do exactly? Is it all trigonometry and cutting up pieces of metal? They write extremely complex and concise reports and give presentations to experts and laymen alike. And then they graduate and have to communicate in writing or verbally, often with non-native speakers, about even more complex topics.

As for �precision with the written word�, most Arts topics are subjective, e.g. was Hamlet insane? I don�t care. He�s a fictional character and about as relevant as Homer Simpson. But without decent communication by engineers, buildings would be collapsing and aircraft would be falling out of the sky on a daily basis.

Now I�m repeating myself, but I want you to see all your questions have been answered. Science graduates do not make better teachers. Arts grads do not make better teachers either. Of all the factors contributing to the effectiveness of a teacher, three years at uni isn�t one of them.

And using my precise engineering writing style, where again is it stated that Arts graduates are in greater demand than those who studied science? If you can please give a few references, you will have proved your case.

[TwinCentre]

The best teachers I ever saw were science and engineering grads, but that is just my experience

[Hod]

Not sure I�d go that far, but on the other hand I�ve seen fantastic teachers who don�t even have a degree.

This is all a bit anecdotal, though.

Let�s at least look at one verifiable source. I worked at the British Council. It was OK, nothing special. Teachers ranged from outstanding to nondescript, but the BC does have some standards, so let�s check the current vacancies. I�ve edited the details, but the original version can be found at:

http://www.britishcouncil.org/learning-teachingjobs.htm

If you can�t be bothered to read below, there are twenty advertisements.

- Twelve don�t mention a degree.
- Eight ask for a general first degree.
- Not one stipulates an Arts degree.

1. Senior Teacher Academic - Paris, France
You will need a TEFL Q level qualification (DELTA, Trinity DipTESOL or equivalent), degree and at least 4 years full-time teaching experience.

2. Senior Teacher Academic (MALE) - Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Degree requirements not mentioned.

3. Teacher of English - Cairo, Egypt
Degree requirements not mentioned.

4. Teacher of English - Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Education to first degree level

5. Senior Teacher ELT Projects - Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Degree requirements not mentioned.

6. Teacher of English - Al-Khobar, Saudi Arabia
Education to first degree level

7. Teacher Trainers - LIBYA
Esssential (sic) requirements: Degree, Diploma (DELTA, Trinity Dip. TESOL etc.) and at least 4 years experience of teaching EFL.

8. Assistant Manager Partner Premises - Seoul, Korea
You should be a highly proficient user of English with a degree from an English Speaking country.

9. Teacher of English � Bangkok, Thailand
You will have a first degree or equivalent

10. Teacher/teacher trainer - Sarawak and Sabah, Malaysia
You must be a highly proficient speaker of English and you must have a first degree or equivalent

11. Senior Teacher adult courses - Heliopolis, Cairo
Degree requirements not mentioned.

12. Senior Teacher (Contracts and Client Manager) - Abu Dhabi, UAE
Degree requirements not mentioned.

13. Senior Teacher Corporate Training (MALE) - Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Degree requirements not mentioned.

14. Senior Teacher: Young Learner Programmes - Bogota, Colombia
You will have at least a first degree/or equivalent

15. Training and Academic Manager, Gharyan, Libya
Degree requirements not mentioned.

16. Teacher of English Business/YL/CELTA specialist - Abu Dhabi, UAE
Degree requirements not mentioned.

17. Training & Academic Manager, LETUP - Al-Fateh (Tripoli), LIBYA
Degree requirements not mentioned.

18. Teacher of English � Kuwait
Degree requirements not mentioned.

19. Teacher of English - Manama, Bahrain
Degree requirements not mentioned.

20. Young Learner Co-ordinator - Dubai, UAE
Degree requirements not mentioned.

[Perilla]

Dear Hod,

Pls understand that I have nothing against engineers or science grads and I'm sure they make great teachers, including TEFL. I also agree that for the vast majority of TEFL posts (ie. private language schools) the DOS couldn't give a monkeys what your degree is in, so long as you have a degree. But among more traditional employers I imagine there remains a preference for arts-related grads. The HK NET programme is one such, and here's some of its recruitment bla ...

Recruitment of Native-speaking English Teachers
for Secondary Schools

QUALIFICATIONS FOR APPOINTMENT
(i) a bachelor�s degree in English Language or English Literature or English Studies or Linguistics# or a Modern Language# OR a Bachelor in Education degree (major in English or a Modern Language#, but not primary education specialist) obtained after 3 years� full-time study from a Hong Kong university or equivalent*; and

(ii) a Post-graduate Diploma in Education majoring in English or equivalent*; and


Category 2 (to be appointed at GM rank, MPS pt. 17-33)

(i) a bachelor�s degree in English Language or English Literature or English Studies or Linguistics# or a Modern Language#; OR a Bachelor in Education degree (major in English or a Modern Language#, but not primary education specialist) obtained after 3 years� full-time study from a Hong Kong university or equivalent*; and

(ii) a Post-graduate Diploma in Education (PGDE) majoring in English or equivalent*; and ...

I confess I'm a bit surprised that the British Council isn't more picky about its teachers' degree subjects. I'm sure it used to be, but hey, that's progress!

I am not convinced that arts grads make better TEFL teachers than science grads, but I do think the fact that some employers of language teachers think that way is understandable, up to a point.

I don't doubt that some science subjects involve heaps of writing, but most arts-related degrees (I'm thinking English, History, Politics etc.) always involve heaps of writing, and unless that writing is pretty damned good you won't get a degree. At least, that's how it was when I took my degree. But that was a long time ago, and the times they are a-changin'.

Anyway, probably worth moving this discussion to the general forum if it has any more go in it.

Drop by HK sometime and I'll buy you a pint.