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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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 Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| the role of education is to develop the individual, but that the system has become a "slave to industry", merely providing workers. |
This is true, of course, but can be said about the education systems in much of the world, not just the Gulf.
More interesting for me was this:
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Dr Karima al Mazroui, a member of the faculty of education at UAE University, who also spoke at the conference, said that one of the biggest hurdles in the higher education system here is that classes are taught in English, while many students have had only basic studies in the language.
"It can lead to low self-esteem and low confidence in students, which can lead to introversion," she said.
"I have students who beg to be able to ask questions in Arabic, not English." She said that despite the drive to teach all university courses in English, Arabic must not be downgraded.
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Good to hear a dissident voice regarding the sacred cow of Gulf third-level 'education'. |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Also, what about a two-year PYP? |
Or what about having the students study in their own language, just like the vast majority of students the world over? |
I agree completely, Cleo. It's just that if they really insist on PYPs, then at least a 2-year programme would give students a fighting chance. More or less, anyway.
But hey, they don't need a fighting chance, because very few of them fail, right?
Wrong! As Cleo correctly points out, very few of them are allowed to fail, because of market considerations, and not because they have really learned English or how to use it in an academic setting. I fully support her contention that only students of a certain level should be allowed in. What this level should be, would depend to a large extent on the length of the programme. For a one-year, I would insist on upper-intermediate; for a longer programme, we could come down somewhat. A PYP should be about teaching academic skills, and fine-tuning their general ability, as she says, and not teaching basic skills.
The current practice of allowing beginners into PYPs is inane. It makes them feel utterly inadequate, and for those who simply do not have linguistic aptitudes and/or existing minimal levels, is doomed to failure.
However, it is widespread because no private institution wants to turn away students. Business is business, and who can blame them?
I believe the responsibility for addressing this very significant problem should rest with the government. As Scot47 points out, they're the ones footing the rather substantial bill in most cases. Even where the student is paying entirely out of his own pocket, the fact remains that he is being duped into an educational course-of-action that is highly unlikely to succeed. OK, the student can be fooled, but can employers, in the long term, be so easily duped?
Either way, the respective Ministries of Higher Education in Gulf states must step in. It is their duty to regulate the system so that their young citizens, the end users, get maximum benefit.
That would mean one or more of the following scenarios:
- Longer PYPs, with more stringent admissions criteria.
- Changing the whole K12 system to English (why bother?)
- Provide an education in Arabic
As Cleo has said, why not just provide 3rd level education through their own language, like in the rest of the world? The money wasted on PYPs could then be spent on developing a decent TEFL industry instead. That way, Gulf youth would get the best of both worlds: they could get a better quality education which didn't make them feel inadequate as the Anglophonic obsession is doing, while at the same time gaining an international language and useful set of skills at a pace much better suited to their existing levels and aptitudes.
When will the madness stop? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| Come June all will be revealed in my forthcoming self-published "Confessions of an EFLing Teacher in KSA" Book your copy now ! I have already negotiated to sell the film rights. |
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Kipling
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: ...Ah Mrs K peel me a grape!!!....and have one yourself!!!!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:27 am Post subject: To Sir with Love...................... |
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| I have already negotiated to sell the film rights. |
Can't wait to read that book but who would play you in the film???
Shawn Connery or maybe Clint Eastman 'Come on punk. ... make my day'
That was his catchphrase if I remember correctly
He had the kind of classroom management skills we could all admire.
Mr K (Costner)
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John Carpenter
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:53 pm Post subject: Common exams are out! |
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| At PMU in the Prep Level, we no longer have common exams. Each teacher prepares his own exams which means that the exams are what the teacher taught and not necessarily what the syllabus required. Ergo, more students pass. We did have a common exam and then 'someone' contacted the rector who was overseas (again) and told him that too many had failed, and the rector responded by having all the failed students retested, (before learning that this was false) and, you guessed it, I believe 90% passed on the 2nd round. What glorious learning those students undertook to pass the 2nd exam! The biggest complaint you hear from the Core is that they are getting to many students with insufficient English to handle Core subjects. These kids, even if they pass, are virtually unemployable at their chosen profession because they exam system is so questionable. Last Semester I tried for the last half of the semester to get rid of students who were well over their 15% absences and found it impossible to do so until right at the end. I wonder why PMU wants to leave these non-attending students on the roles? Is there some benefit in inflating the figures? Is there a financial gain? |
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Citizenkane
Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 234
Location: Xanadu
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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What JC and others have described is all too typical of life in Saudi PYPS.
I'll be honest and say that in my years in the Kingdom, I have not encountered a single exception to the rule. it is all a farce. Occasionally, you hear of some new uni which promises to break the mould and be a 'real' university. My former place of work, Al Yamamah College in Riyadh, is a perfect example. When they opened, they had all this fancy talk of promoting 'critical thinking' (the fashionable buzz word), not accepting excuses for lateness or absence and generally demanding high behavioural and academic standards for students.
And for a - very short - while, it did sort of work.
But then, as always, Saudi reality came crashing down and now from everything I've heard Al Yam is just as big a mess as other Saudi colleges, if not more so. Apparantly this is what the market not only tolerates but actually demands. And given that there are now so many unis in KSA - Riyadh in particular is over-saturated with private colleges - places seem all the more eager to please and the drive towards ever lower standards seems relentless. |
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Daddyo
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Bogota, Colombia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Bebsi wrote: |
| One of the big changes that appears to have taken place in KSA over the last few years is the propensity for hiring cheap, poorly qualified and/or inexperienced EFL teachers, whose experience is confined to teaching conversation in east Asia, and who know nothing about the needs of the Gulf student. |
Interesting. Is this really true? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Daddyo wrote: |
| Bebsi wrote: |
| One of the big changes that appears to have taken place in KSA over the last few years is the propensity for hiring cheap, poorly qualified and/or inexperienced EFL teachers, whose experience is confined to teaching conversation in east Asia, and who know nothing about the needs of the Gulf student. |
Interesting. Is this really true? |
This has been a trend around the Gulf... not a huge trend, but a trend. The thing is that they are cutting pay and benefits, and those that don't know the area are the easiest to screw out what used to be the norms.
It is the worst of the slashing recruiters that are going after the gullible in Asia.
VS |
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Daddyo
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Bogota, Colombia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Daddyo wrote: |
| Bebsi wrote: |
| One of the big changes that appears to have taken place in KSA over the last few years is the propensity for hiring cheap, poorly qualified and/or inexperienced EFL teachers, whose experience is confined to teaching conversation in east Asia, and who know nothing about the needs of the Gulf student. |
Interesting. Is this really true? |
This has been a trend around the Gulf... not a huge trend, but a trend. The thing is that they are cutting pay and benefits, and those that don't know the area are the easiest to screw out what used to be the norms.
It is the worst of the slashing recruiters that are going after the gullible in Asia.
VS |
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yeah ok only -- well I find it a bit hard to believe that teachers in Asia are tripping over their feet to get to the Middle East, no matter what the enticements are. It's only money after all, and in the minds of the average ESL teacher in Thailand (for example) scarcely worth living in a compound in a sea of sand with all those restrictions. These unethical recruiters may get the occasional disenfranchised Tokyo-phile, but as for the rest coming over ... as a trend ... well I just can't seem to swallow that one. Moreover ... if really high salaries couldn't entice Asian teachers, how could the (presumably) substantially lower salaries of today, coupled with reduced benefits, drag them in now?
What I suspect - and this is an even worse scenario -- is that eminently qualified, culturally sensitive teachers such as yourself, who want to teach in that part of the world, are just having to accept less ... because these unscruplous touts want more. It's like any other business: it's filling up with middlemen, people who shove some paper around and get a fee for it. Like bankers and financiers ... people who do nothing, contribute nothing, but manage to worm their way into the middle of a going concern to snake a percentage of the remuneration of someone else's toil. It's your milieu who is getting robbed, not the people a world away. Am I making sense?
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Daddyo,
" . . . well I find it a bit hard to believe that teachers in Asia are tripping over their feet to get to the Middle East, no matter what the enticements. Have they ever?"
Yes.
Regards,
John |
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Daddyo
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Bogota, Colombia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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... sure you're not being just a teensy bit xenophobic?
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| It's only money after all, and in the minds of the average ESL teacher in Thailand (for example) scarcely worth living in a compound in a sea of sand with all those restrictions. |
Teachers working for one of those dodgy recruiters would be doing very very well to live on a compound! Far more likely that they'll be sharing some apartment in a half-built block in the middle of nowhere.
As for the rest of your post, it is indeed the case that even the worse jobs in the Gulf countries are quite attractive for teachers elsewhere in the world - not just Asia. If you're a TEFLer and need to save money quickly, the Gulf is about the only place in the world where you can do that. Given the economic times we're living in, there are plenty of people willing to take jobs in KSA which 'old-timers' would turn up their noses at.
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| What I suspect - and this is an even worse scenario -- is that eminently qualified, culturally sensitive teachers such as yourself, who want to teach in that part of the world, are just having to accept less ... because these unscruplous touts want more. |
That's not really true. Those employers - usually third level colleges - who require teachers with MAs and experience still offer fairly decent salaries and other benefits. It's just that in the past few years, with the expansion of third-level education in KSA and the advent of the 'business visa' scam, more and more places have opened who are prepared to take just about anyone who can string an English sentence together (and even that is optional!) There are still some decent jobs in KSA, but they are becoming ever more outnumbered by the dross. |
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Daddyo
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Bogota, Colombia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Cleopatra"]
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That's not really true. Those employers - usually third level colleges - who require teachers with MAs and experience still offer fairly decent salaries and other benefits. |
Well, my response to that is merely to wait awhile. We're living in deflationary times, whether you choose to believe it or not. Things are going to get cheaper, our respective fields and professions are going to get more crowded, and we're all going to be earning less. But don't take my word for it: Ask any merchant banker, any economist, they'll tell you the same thing.
And I think quite few people would challenge your assertion that the Gulf is the only place in the world where a TEFLer can earn money fast. Not everyone is motivated by money, which explains why teachers who could do at least as well or better financially by living and working in their native lands choose not to.
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Finally, I think that the real threat here is not a 21 year old backpacker in Laos, but the surplus of opportunists who are busily infiltrating the world economy and sticking a spivot into everyone's profits. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Daddyo,
". sure you're not being just a teensy bit xenophobic?"
If that was in response to my post (it comes right after it,) I'm puzzled. How could my saying that many teachers from Asia have wanted to come to the Middle East be interpreted as "xenophobic?"
Regards,
John |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, my response to that is merely to wait awhile. We're living in deflationary times, whether you choose to believe it or not. |
Eh? I said in my post that economic times are tough, which is why some employers get away with offering lousy packages. But that does not alter the fact that decent packages are still available in KSA - if you have the right credentials.
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| And I think quite few people would challenge your assertion that the Gulf is the only place in the world where a TEFLer can earn money fast |
Feel free to go away and challenge my assertion. I'm all ears, as I'm sure are those many teachers who are bored with life in the Gulf but stay as it's the only place they can make a half-decent salary. If you know some place where an ESL teacher can make the best part of 3000 Euros a month - tax and rentfree and with 45-60 days paid holiday a year - do please let me know.
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| Not everyone is motivated by money, which explains why teachers who could do at least as well or better financially by living and working in their native lands choose not to. |
Of course. If money was your prime concern, you'd never get into this 'profession' in the first place. However, many TEFLers do want or need to save money, and the Gulf is one of very few places you can do so as an ESL teacher. |
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