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Deadweight impeding educational progress in public schools
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who was this "unperson" ?
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sheikher



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do I change the Topic to DEADWEIGHT IMPEDING EDUCATIONAL DISCUSSION IN THIS THREAD?
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sheikher wrote:
How do I change the Topic to DEADWEIGHT IMPEDING EDUCATIONAL DISCUSSION IN THIS THREAD?

Now Sheikher... don't be so hard on yourself. Laughing

I doubt that there are many teachers around the Gulf who haven't been both frustrated and dismayed at the disinterest (if not open dislike) that the students show about reading... in any language.

VS
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Cleo, I never thought I'd say this, but in this particular thread at this particular moment, I am more gently pro-Saudi than you are! (yah, yah, whatever that means


I'm not sure it's a question of being 'pro' or 'anti' Saudi (yeah, whatever that means!) I'm just pointing out that in my experience, very few Saudis read except when doing so for 'education' or religious purposes - and even then it's more a matter of memorisation and/or recitation rather than what we would call reading.

I suppose part of it is due to literacy being quite a novel phenonemon in this part of the world, but I think there's more to it than that. Mass literacy is, historically speaking, a relatively new concept just about everywhere. I don't think this alone fully explains the strange attitudes towards everything to do with books and reading that one encounters in the Gulf.
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sheikher



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone loves statistics!

In 1970, in comparison to all countries in the Middle East and North Africa, the literacy rate of 15 percent for men and 2 percent for women in Saudi Arabia was lower only in Yemen and Afghanistan. For this reason, the steep rise in literacy rates--by 1990 the literacy rate for men had risen to 73 percent and that for women to 48 percent--must be seen as an achievement.
http://countrystudies.us/saudi-arabia/31.htm


Literacy: definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 78.8%
male: 84.7%
female: 70.8% (2003 est.)
Rank: 155

Definition: This entry includes a definition of literacy and Census Bureau percentages for the total population, males, and females. There are no universal definitions and standards of literacy. Unless otherwise specified, all rates are based on the most common definition - the ability to read and write at a specified age. Detailing the standards that individual countries use to assess the ability to read and write is beyond the scope of the Factbook. Information on literacy, while not a perfect measure of educational results, is probably the most easily available and valid for international comparisons. Low levels of literacy, and education in general, can impede the economic development of a country in the current rapidly changing, technology-driven world.

Source: CIA World Factbook - Unless otherwise noted, information in this page is accurate as of November 3, 2010

http://www.indexmundi.com/saudi_arabia/literacy.html
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For this reason, the steep rise in literacy rates--by 1990 the literacy rate for men had risen to 73 percent and that for women to 48 percent--must be seen as an achievement.


And it's now above 90% for people under the age of 20 or so - at least according to official statistics, which I do actually believe in this instance.

I don't argue that this is a considerable achievement for which the Gulf countries do deserve praise. However, there's a huge difference between having basic reading skills and having a reading culture. There is an almost total absence of the latter in the Gulf countries, and cultivating such a culture will take decades, if not longer.


Last edited by Cleopatra on Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear sheikher,

Being able to read (literacy) and liking to read are, unfortunately, not the same at all.
Saudi, in my experience, is not a land where reading is much enjoyed or encouraged.
I wonder is one reason for its not being encouraged is that many consider the Quran to be "the sum of all there is to know?"
I mean, if you truly believe that, why bother reading anything else?
Moreover, I suspect those in power may feel more comfortable having a population that doesn't read much.
I know that's usually the case in the States.
Regards,
John
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sheikher



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur, Mr Slat, that literacy and reading-for-pleasure are not necessarily camels within the same kettle.

I am not registered with any of Saudi Arabia's public libraries, but am informed, perhaps erroneously, that book circulation is restricted to within their four walls.

Apparently, librarians eventually despaired in their attempts to collect overdue fees, suspecting that their books found the same fate as those in the horrific photo above.

Does the same apply to public school libraries and higher education libraries?

I am aware of a prominent local university's library's hours of operation. Closed Thursdays and Fridays!


Last edited by sheikher on Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was the question again ?
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does the same apply to public school libraries and higher education libraries?


At the risk of repeating myself, the very concept of a lending library is quite alien to most Saudis. That is not an exaggeration: there is not even a word for 'library' in the Arabic language, the same word - maktaba, or 'place of the book' - mean both 'bookshop' and 'library' (and, if I am not mistaken, also 'office'.)

In fact, libraries in many Saudi universities function more as bookshops than as libraries, as that is where students go to buy books rather than borrow them. One student of mine was quite taken aback when I told her that you could actually borrow a book from the university library.
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
Generally speaking Saudis do not read and they have no hobbies or interests.


C'mon Uncle Scott, how come Saudis do not have hobbies or interests!
Did you forget that the majority of Saudis, men and women, like to have Kebsa with camel meats in Wadis and deserts around cities like Riyadh, Jeddah, Abha, etc. These are their main hobbies and interests, they are not interest in reading or writing, they are more interested in tribe poetry and sword dancing for their national festivals and Kingdomship! Laughing
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sheikher



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us now praise our colleague:

Mixed reaction to new curriculum changes

JEDDAH: There has been mixed reaction from students and teachers to the continuous evaluation method introduced by the Ministry of Education at elementary and intermediate schools in the Kingdom.

The new system will see students being evaluated on their performance throughout the year, instead of having the bulk of marks coming from mid-year or end-of-year examinations.

The new method has already been implemented for certain subjects.
There was a mixed reaction this week from teachers and students on the changes.

Asem Al-Ghamdi, an English teacher, said that the new system must ensure that knowledge is gained throughout the year. He supports it, as long as it is applied correctly and makes students work consistently.



http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2010112688031
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many of our hosts like to drive in the desert in their 4x4's and play at being bedouin. Maybe that can be seen as a hobby. Not so different from our cousins across the Atlantic whoi like to get dressed up and play at being cowboys.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear scot47,

Actually, from what I've seen here, it's mostly the tourists (especially the Japanese and the Germans) who like to play dress up.

Karl May and Old Shatterhand live on.

Regards,
John
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
Not so different from our cousins across the Atlantic whoi like to get dressed up and play at being cowboys.

Except that we get over this by the age of 12... and as John says, leave it to the foreign tourists.

VS
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