Job Discussion Forums

west2east · Joined: 03 May 2009 Posts: 120 Location: China

@ DixieCat

Moralistic stance? As opposed (from my understanding) an unmoral stance? This is an open forum and the question posed by the OP demands more than a straight 'yes' or 'no' response. As an open ESL community do we not owe it each other to provide a variety of view points? Or is it only acceptable to only ever present an opinion that sides with that of the OP alone? I think not.

If you believe that alternative approaches to a question should be withheld then ask yourself if this is really doing the OP a favour.

Early responses seemingly sanctioned breaking the terms of a contract. When teachers do a midnight run or leave with little or no notice, it places a burden upon their ESL colleagues as well as management. I make no apology for challenging anyone in this situation and if that makes me some kind of moralistic martyr, I think I can find it within myself to somehow live with that.

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

You'll know if you can't leave at the airport because before that happens, you'll usually be required to surrender your passport if it is a serious matter.

You'll also know you are in a legal dispute because you'll be signing official papers.

But as far as the no notice, midnight cut and run - only what your conscience tells you can stop you.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

Again, I'm with west2east (and, no, we don't know each other personally, no conspiracies here!) - - I've worked at one school for far too long now and have seen too many loser, so-called teachers come in, rant and rave over the slightest things, quit suddenly (or force the school to fire them in the interest of the students), and then run to Dave's or other forums and lambaste the school as if it was run by Satan himself. So I'll repeat myself, unless EXTREME circumstances warrant it (and really, most of us here will never know the exact circumstances anyway), my advice and opinion to any and all who come here asking input about whether or not they should pull a runner or, in the case of the OP, what may be the consequences of said action, stays the same as I stated before.

I'm not blasting this OP personally - - I don't know him or the reasons for his termination of contract - - but this just happens to be yet another thread in a long line of similar threads and I grow weary of them. So there you go.

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

I dunno, sounds like slavery if you ask me. My moral compass tells me that people should be free to quit a job they are displeased working at and not be forced to work if they do not choose to.

This is a 2010 classroom, not a 1610 sugar plantation.

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

I agree with the above to some degree, people should be free to quit a job etc, but when said job has terms of a contract that include a penalty, then people should be prepared to pay it. We dont generally accept employers ignoring terms of the contract and when the shoe is on the other foot, the same should apply.

Its not an 'Uncle Tom' thing, but just a fair play thing, and it cuts both ways.

We dont know the circumstances, but I would guess they arent too bad. Normally posters come on and shout about their greivances first, and they tend to shout pretty loud when they feel hard done by.

Im with Kev too. Too many people just cant hack it, cant do the job, or arent prepared to do the job, and have a sense of entitlement that is way out of kilter IMO. Harsh, but true in my limited experience. I have to say, I havent experienced many (any!) bad employers and a failure to fufill contracts on their side, but I have seen a lot of FT's that certainly fail in the responsibilities on their side. I wouldnt want to be a recruiter or employer in China to be honest, I've met a lot more FT's I wouldnt employ as opposed to ones I would.

sharpe88 · Joined: 21 Oct 2008 Posts: 226

^ Never experienced a bad employer? Wow.... I haven't experienced a good Chinese employer except one.

Dodgy employers + dodgy FTs = lots of runners

JamesD · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:50 am Post subject:

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

Let me qualify my statement:

If a school is treating me unfairly, breaking the contract, or not abiding by certain agreed upon standards then I reserve the right to leave the school.

Of course if a "teacher" expects to sit in the corner of the class playing with his/her phone while the students write activity sheets all class, this is of course unacceptable.

So yes, I understand the position that one should finish a contract. But if I get paid late, forced to work overtime not agreed on, etc. or have mysterious deductions from my pay not mentioned in the contract then I still stand by my opinion that I reserve the right to walk out.

nickpellatt · Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 1522

pfraser · Joined: 18 Jun 2010 Posts: 7

just for some closure here...

left the country yesterday no problems. nothing but empty threats. i'm not going to mention it here, but we had a legitimate reason for leaving, andwe didn't want to take the easy way out by simply running. but, our boss decided to be a d-bag, so we did. if someone is in a similar situation, just go quick, and your a-ok. worst that can happen is you might have to answer some ?'s before getting another Chinese visa

Teatime of Soul · Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 905

The Edge · Joined: 04 Sep 2010 Posts: 455 Location: China

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

west2east · Joined: 03 May 2009 Posts: 120 Location: China

The Great Wall of Whiner · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing

No one here can judge you for leaving, it was your decision and nobody else's. We do not know your situation but obviously you felt better off out of the school. Do what's best for yourself unless it's even more harmful to someone else, and do not allow others to control you.

Help however goes both ways and I would suggest however that you e-mail your old boss and let him know clearly why you left so hopefully he won't treat the next teachers the same way. Also letting us know something of the dangers of that school would be helpful for the next teacher(s), but that's your private issue and if you feel you'd like to keep it private, understood.

Good luck.