Job Discussion Forums

[nickpellatt]

Just browsing this thread again and just posted to say I kinda disagree with the 'throw the course books away' approach. I really prefer to use course books or print and teach materials, and supplement these materials only slightly with my own stuff.

I always think my time is better spent looking at the material to hand, and working out how I can make it work in my class, with my students, to suit their needs, than spend the time finding other material, writing other material, and then again deciding how to make it work in my class.

Maybe its just me, but I always think the likelihood of course material prepared and tested by a team of people who design EFL materials for a living are likely to be better than stuff I do, a moderately qualified individual who teaches for a living.

My best lessons, in which I feel the students both learn something and enjoy the class, are all ones from books or other sources. Maybe its just me?

[Non Sequitur]

Let us know how you get on Cormac

[cormac]

[Non Sequitur]

If your students have a text (which they'be bought) they will expect you to use it even if in your view it is rubbish.
Good luck - 34 gosh!

[cormac]

[Trifaro]

I don't agree with this if you are teaching typical university aged students -

"If your students have a text (which they'be bought) they will expect you to use it even if in your view it is rubbish."

In my 6+ years of "teaching" in China I have rarely used the book and no one seemed to care. I usually ask the students on the 1st day if they have the book and wanted to use it and they generally say "No, the book is boring. We want to play games and sing songs."

I take that back, over that time I can remember just 3 people asking me why I didn't use the book.

One was an adult student whose company chose her and 59 others to go to Shanghai for 6 months of intensive English classes. Perhaps others in the class felt the same way as stated above - they had a book and wanted to use it.

The other 2 were typical university students. 1 was an overbearing girl who wanted attention and would follow me to the WC during the break because she wanted to "practice" English. What is the break for?

The other was a Japanese person studying Chinese but was required to take a few English classes. He didn't want to do the Oral exercises, but the Grammar exercises. Since most of the class couldn't speak English well, I relented and spent 10/20 minutes each day going through a few exercises such as the following -

Choose the correct word -
He (is/are) a fool.

It seems to me that most of the books that I've seen are Ok for the Chinese teacher's Listening/Writing/Grammar class, not the Spoken English class.

I have seen one or two good Speaking exercises, but most I already cover in my own way. If the students have a book, I usually will say something to this effect - "Today the topic is Restaurant. Unit 5 of the book on page 66 has additional information." But, I use my own handouts.

It has been my experience that even if the class "has" a book, not every student has it. If they do have it, most forget to bring it to class, as well as a pen or notebook. Perhaps I could be more of a disciplinarian, but what is the point of making the class unenjoyable.

I've met some "real" teachers who subtract points if the kid is 3 minutes late, doesn't have a pen etc.. I just remember and give them a bad score.

Why should I care if the school really doesn't care about the class? My current school only requires the Oral English class for 1 semester, meeting every other week, similar to my last university. I saw groups of 60 students for 90 minutes about 7 times last semester. 3 groups only had 3 meetings because of the Asian Games and the schools Sports Meet, yet they wanted me to give "grades".

Quite frankly, out of approximately 1000 atudents, perhaps 20 could hold a good basic conversation and another 50 or so an OK conversation. The rest needed to memorize what they wanted to say or read it.

I guess Nick is right, adult training centers offer more fulfillment or I should insist on "teaching" English majors or find a job at Bei Da or better yet, get out of town!!

[Non Sequitur]

The OP is going to a university so the die is cast on that one.
I was trying to make the OP aware of issues around texts that students have bought. They are more wedded to them in semester 1 of their freshman year but if the teacher's resources are better (more fun) then textbook use won't be an issue.
Some queries about non-use of the textbooks have originated with the parents in my experience.
BUT after 3 years I am getting a bit tired of putting together resources because the textbooks aren't up to it and that includes New Interchange where the dialogues are way too short besides being culturally biased.

[igorG]

The New Interchange books have been mentioned, I think, a couple times here now. I understand Oral English is for a daily use of the language and the books guide and/or expose students to just that, however, and as the above message suggests these books are limited in scope. Therefore, they are insuficient for a uni student, aren't they? Sure that a FT can expand on whatever's in the book there, but again, we are talking about the higher education, aren't we? Just imagine what these students learn in their local teachers classrooms. Do you think it's remotely as competitive as in the FTs classrooms at the unis around? Again, and as someone has suggested previously on, it comes down to what you are employed to do.

[nickpellatt]

Igor, PM me with an email address and I can send you some of the lesson materials I use, and if it looks like it might be suitable for your Uni classes you can give it a try.

Of course, I havent met your Uni students and dont know what level any of them are, but Im not so sure the graded material from books or print and teach lessons wouldnt be suitable, I dont think Uni students are going to be any different to adult students. Some of the adult students are post-grads, and the material is suitable. Dont know really, but if you want to try some of my print and teach things PM me. Id be interested to know, either off forum or on, what you think and how you got on with them.

What I have noticed is some students and teachers have said its lazy to use books and print and teach stuff. I have seen a bit of a stigma attached to them. Again, might just be me, but I have seen a lot of new teachers take a real pride in designing and writing materials, and cast aside pre-prepared things far too quickly.

Now I should confess, I can be a bit lazy but I dont skip prep. I just prefer to use my prep time to turn material into a lesson, rather than search for material.

[igorG]

The local or foreign books for mainland are printed in Beijing. Any foreign press is hard to get on mainland, and so, for FTs, it'd be nice to share course books or any supplementary material. I may take that above message up and ask for some myself. Thanks

So, what's wrong with the local press? Many English ones are structurally flawed and often lack cohesiveness, and then they lack the quality of language too. Moreover, and especially with regards to tertiary education, local books see little difference in between formal and informal language. Local teachers may not mind that all as their examinations are driven by their books, but FTs .. hard to see the logic.

Due to the local environment, many FTs have opted to create their own material, which is quite understandable. It's often not about the pride as the message above suggests. It's about our survival and understanding of what we are here to accomplish. I mean, who'd want to spend so much time trying to grasp the local academic concept and their unprofessional books.

Having mentioned our creativity on mainland, we should be aware of the consequences leaving our hard work and creativity behind. Sharing our materials around is gracious, however, and as far as i know, there are some (especially locals) that directly or indirectly benefit out of it and that without giving us any credit for it whatsoever. We don't claim copyrights on our lesson plans or other material we provide, do we? Haven't we seen some local employers directing us to follow up in a certain way? Well, sometimes it's what the previous FT has done. Then, haven't we seen some pasted and copied material abused around? Who knows whose it was before. That worries me and I think it should worry others as well. I am increasingly uncomfortable planning my lessons for an official purpose, and so I provide a rather ill skeleton only.

That brings me to the point below;

[Trifaro]

".So, what's wrong with the local press? ....."

How do you do? And you?

I'm not sure about you, but the only place I have ever heard anyone say those words was here in China.

It seems to me that alot of the books are keen on the word "keen". Thankfully I've never heard anyone, anywhere actully say that word!

I just looked at the stack of textbooks that I have and I'd have to say the "New Person to Person" book is the best for a Speaking class because it doesn't have any grammar exercises which the other books seem to be "keen" on!

I agree with Igor's statement about being wary of where your plans, quizzes, DVD's and particulary a Syllabus for a "real" class goes amongst the school staff. Oral English materials = who cares. Sharing with another foreigner is Ok in my mind though.

I must admit, the basic format for the Syllabus that I have was shared with me by someone once on Dave's a few years ago. I have even shared my dialogues and other stuff with people on Dave's.

As alluded to above, I would try to not share any stuff with school leaders who ask you to teach a specialty class. I have taught just a few over the years and prefer the ho humness of the Oral English class. I definitely do not need the aggravation for a specialty class which pays a handful of peanuts more, but requires a lot more time and effort.

Those thoughts only pertain to people who were hired to conduct Oral English classes and then asked to "teach" 1 regular class for overtime pay. It doesn't apply to people who solely have academic classes.

Here's why - I was once asked to teach a law class. They demanded that I submit a syllabus, copies of my quizzes and final exam as well as a chance to review the movies I planned to show to help depict the horrors of International Human Rights crimes. I'm sure they copied everything.

The next semester I asked if they needed me to teach the class again. I was inclined because then I could get a return on the time that I spent the previous semester. The Law department leader said know that there budget couldn't afford it bla bla bla.

Sure enough, the class was offered the next term with a Chinese teacher who spoke English. I saw the syllabus and quizzes and was told the same movies were watched.

I guess I'm a sucker. You have to love the gall of some Chinese leaders. I worked with a guy last year who is now studying for his Phd in the UK. Before he completed last term, the school asked him to prepare a syllabus etc... for a class that he wasn't going to teach for the royal sum of 0!

[nickpellatt]

[Trifaro]

Perhaps the material is the plan?

".....in the environments I have worked .... "

As far as I am concerned, the above is the key. I've also worked in training centers and generally most of the people really wanted to improve their English. There were a few university students enrolled who cared as well. On the other hand, during the summer months there were a few college kids who were only there because their parents made them attend.

The original question was about books for a university class. If the class is comprised of English majors, then perhaps the book is somewhat important and may help guide a bit. If the class is non-English majors, the book really doesn't matter in my opinion.

As previously mentioned by someone else, class sizes range and more importantly the ability level of the students in the class.

Everything I've typed pertains to a university Oral English class for non-English majors.

[nickpellatt]

Nah, the material is the material. The plan is the plan. For me, its a big difference, and this is why I would always look at the books on offer, or that I already have, regardless of the setting. Makes my life easier.

Im not going to bore you any further with a sample plan, but I normally write something that includes my opener and lead in to the materials, details of how I will group students, key prompts and check questions, problem words I expect students to have which will go on the board etc. Timings and lead ins for switching between activities. Even scripted jokes! All of this is the plan, which is different to the material.

Solid plans make bad material average, and good material great. Great material with no plan normally makes for average lessons IMO.

[igorG]

Forget that "great material", more adequate academic material ought to be required by the licensing authorities of local unis, but it is not, is it? Licensing authorities get their demands in applications for schools, and that an applicant must have this and that. How do the local businesspeople open their schools? With unis, it seems that many are owned and managed by some highly powerful people, out of whom few know what the education really is about. It would appear that most of them must be "on the same page" and want the same thing...uniformity, obedience etc


Having said that, it's ironic such schools have put us into posts with little in hand and that we often have to search for our own material, which may become more difficult with the internet access/restrictions or office supplies around. Clearly, many of us here are to motivate or attract their ill prepared kids only.