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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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 Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| TeresaLopez wrote: |
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
Mexican schools ask for the TKT because it is cheap, easy to get (compared to an actual program), designed for NON-native speakers and it carries the almighty Cambridge name.
I am tired of seeing people bat around TKT like it is some kind of great teacher qualification in Mexico. It is just an exam. Every teacher with a TEFL cert. should have the knowledge of the TKT exams and then some. Of course a CELTA is much higher than a TKT.
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You keep saying that it is for non-native teachers, but according to the Cambridge link you so graciously provided:
TKT is suitable for teachers of English in primary, secondary
or adult teaching contexts and is intended for an
international audience of non-first language or first language
teachers of English.
I am not saying it is some great teacher qualification, I simply asked if people were asking for it. I have seen the study guide, so am fairly sure I could pass it, my question was if it would make me more marketable.
But while it might be a basic certificate, it is pretty comprehensive, so I don�t think that is a bad thing for schools to ask for. And, some schools are asking for it for ALL teachers. |
TKT was tailored for non-native EFL teachers. I am not backing down from that statement. Sure, anybody can take it. Cambridge just loves it when folks have all the wonderful pieces of paper they have on offer.
By all means, pay the money and take the TKT exams. They are neither pass nor fail, so it can only help, right?
http://www.cambridgeesol.org/recognition/case-studies/tkt.html
"In Mexico, the Ministry of Education (Secretar�a de Educaci�n P�blica - SEP) has incorporated the TKT syllabus into its new national development programme to retrain state secondary teachers.
A training framework has been set up where the language level of teachers is initially evaluated using the Quick Placement Test. They are then allocated a suitable training programme, according to their level of English, and provided language/examination preparation to raise their level of English. This training should enable them to reach the required language level, which is B1 on the CEFR. Once this has level has been reached, teachers undertake training in methodology based on the TKT syllabus."
https://www.teachers.cambridgeesol.org/ts/exams/CEFR/B1
http://www.alte.org/framework/level2.php |
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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Kind of misleading to imply that TKT has anything to do with one's level on the Common European Framework. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
TKT was tailored for non-native EFL teachers. I am not backing down from that statement. Sure, anybody can take it. Cambridge just loves it when folks have all the wonderful pieces of paper they have on offer.
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Then apparently you know something the people at Cambridge don�t, since they mention several times it is NOT just for non-native speakers. Anyway, it is a test of teaching knowledge not a language test per se, so why wouldn�t it be a good qualification to have if people are asking for it? That was my question, not your, or anyone�s opinion, of the test. Of course, your are entitled to your opinion, but you so often state opinion as fact. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| geaaronson wrote: |
I don`t know what to tell you about how to get a position here. I suspect it`s very competitive in DF but once you get outside there you may have a much better chance. My guess is that with your present qualifications you would easily get a position with a prepa in DF if you had the CELTA certificate, and would stand a good chance of getting university teaching in much smaller cities as such as I did. (My city has a population of 50,000) |
I am open to moving out of the DF, in fact we have a house in a small town in Zacatecas that is within stones throw of a couple of decent sized cities, so that might be something to consider. Hadn�t really thought of a prepa but that might be something to consider. My degree is in Elementary Education, but I don�t really want to teach little kids. Thanks for taking the time to share your insight. By the way, right now I also have several classes at a travel agency and my students are all great, very motivated and get a fair amount of practice in their job. Some are approaching real fluency, which is nice to see. It�s a hard sell teaching English to people who just don�t see the value in it, I only have one of those right now, and I basically just treat him like everyone else, if he doesn�t know the answer to a question, or want to participate, then fine, he�s an adult, he can decide how little he wants to get out of the class. Why should the other students be dragged down to his (very low) level. |
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geaaronson
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It�s a hard sell teaching English to people who just don�t see the value in it, I only have one of those right now, and I basically just treat him like everyone else, if he doesn�t know the answer to a question, or want to participate, then fine, he�s an adult, he can decide how little he wants to get out of the class. Why should the other students be dragged down to his (very low) level. |
You`ve approached him with the right attitude. Those kinds of situations reoccur all the time. I had a student 2 years ago who was extremely ambitious but at the back of the pack as well. She was very hard working but was offensive to some of the other students as she was so aggressive. I gave her all the extra attention necessary to get her up to speed and she appreciated it, but my best student who was reading Siddharta by Hesse, could not stand her as did some of the others.
Those are the hazards of the profession and each one of us has to deal with it tactfully. |
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TIKITEMBO
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject: On the TKT |
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| I would agree with the person saying the TKT is not necessarily the best bet. I'm teaching in Ecuador in Quito and my experience has been that it's a test used most often here for non-native speakers who are now required to have the certification (I think by the government and are being re-trained, same as posted above). The CELTA is much more respected here or an equivalent. From my personal experience, I've felt like the TKT is beat out by being a native English speaker. Granted this is Ecuador, so maybe it's different. Here if you got the TKT and you were an English speaker, I think people would wonder why you got it. |
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FreddyM
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 180
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: On the TKT |
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| TIKITEMBO wrote: |
| I would agree with the person saying the TKT is not necessarily the best bet. I'm teaching in Ecuador in Quito and my experience has been that it's a test used most often here for non-native speakers who are now required to have the certification (I think by the government and are being re-trained, same as posted above). The CELTA is much more respected here or an equivalent. From my personal experience, I've felt like the TKT is beat out by being a native English speaker. Granted this is Ecuador, so maybe it's different. Here if you got the TKT and you were an English speaker, I think people would wonder why you got it. |
I think there's a lot of confusion about what these qualifications mean or what they represent from the very authorities in the country that are responsible for somehow validating the English level and teaching qualifications of individuals. I'm an experienced, fully certified teacher from the U.S., but Mexican by birth, and I've tried to rely on those qualifications as well as being a "native speaker" in job applications. But I've run into problems at times. I ended up taking the CPE (certificate of proficiency in english) from Cambridge to "verify" my English level (and got the top score possible), even though it's designed for non-native English speakers. When applying for being an oral examiner for the Cambridge exams, I was rejected for not having any official validation of my level. A Master's (and Bachelor's) degree form a U.S. university seemed to not matter at all. (The really funny part is that a U.S. university would accept me as is even now, no TOEFL required, by the mere fact of possessing degrees from an English speaking country). And now I'm looking to get some kind of official certification from Mexico, and while there are programs available to get a licenciatura based on previous work experience and other qualifications....somehow the ones I have don't stack up. They will accept an ICELT or CELTA, but the training I have is much more extensive than that, but since it's not on the official list, it doesn't count. Ironically, having a TKT does.
Since the TKT is somehow recognized and known, and if you can afford the test, I figure there's no harm in getting it, because while you may be even far more qualified in other regards and have other credentials, people won't know what they really mean and may disregard them....but accept you as highly qualified because you possess some inferior piece of paper that they've heard of. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: On the TKT |
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| FreddyM wrote: |
And now I'm looking to get some kind of official certification from Mexico, and while there are programs available to get a licenciatura based on previous work experience and other qualifications....somehow the ones I have don't stack up. They will accept an ICELT or CELTA, but the training I have is much more extensive than that, but since it's not on the official list, it doesn't count. Ironically, having a TKT does.
Since the TKT is somehow recognized and known, and if you can afford the test, I figure there's no harm in getting it, because while you may be even far more qualified in other regards and have other credentials, people won't know what they really mean and may disregard them....but accept you as highly qualified because you possess some inferior piece of paper that they've heard of. |
Exactly, that is my situation almost exactly. PM me if you are interested in a part time SEP recognized Teacher�s Diploma in Mexico City. It focuses on teaching Prepa and Uni students. |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ... and as far as bits of paper go, this is definitely the land of quantity over quality. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
| ... and as far as bits of paper go, this is definitely the land of quantity over quality. |
Yeah, and it has to be THE bit of paper they want. It doesn�t matter if you have qualifications that are higher than what they are asking for, either. |
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FreddyM
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 180
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: On the TKT |
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| TeresaLopez wrote: |
Exactly, that is my situation almost exactly. PM me if you are interested in a part time SEP recognized Teacher�s Diploma in Mexico City. It focuses on teaching Prepa and Uni students. |
Thanks Teresa. But I'm looking into doing this exam through Ceneval to get a licenciatura in English teaching. If I had a CELTA or ICELt or something like that, it would be a cinch, just turn in some documents and do a one hour presentation and question and answer session. My certification and English teaching training however falls out of their official list of recognized trainings, so to get their diploma, it involves more, including taking an exam, and submitting a portfolio and video taping a class. I still need to find out the exact details. But as as far as Mexican-recognized pieces of papers go, I figured this one would be far better, perhaps cheaper, and easier than some other training course. This might be a good option for you as well, it seems like we're in the same boat in this regard.
http://www.ceneval.edu.mx/ceneval-web/content.do?page=3910 |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| TeresaLopez wrote: |
| Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
| ... and as far as bits of paper go, this is definitely the land of quantity over quality. |
Yeah, and it has to be THE bit of paper they want. It doesn�t matter if you have qualifications that are higher than what they are asking for, either. |
I think it still depends more on whether they want to hire you or you want to be hired by them - in the case of the latter they will ask for their specific bit of paper; for the former you just have to be there looking native-speakerish with a pulse. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks MELEE |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: On the TKT |
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| TIKITEMBO wrote: |
| I would agree with the person saying the TKT is not necessarily the best bet. I'm teaching in Ecuador in Quito and my experience has been that it's a test used most often here for non-native speakers who are now required to have the certification (I think by the government and are being re-trained, same as posted above). The CELTA is much more respected here or an equivalent. From my personal experience, I've felt like the TKT is beat out by being a native English speaker. Granted this is Ecuador, so maybe it's different. Here if you got the TKT and you were an English speaker, I think people would wonder why you got it. |
That is what I have been saying all along.  |
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