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sistercream
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 497
Location: Pearl River Delta
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 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| RedDinosaur wrote: |
500 sq ft. for 5 people?!? 
That sounds like room for 2 at most to me. |
Welcome to real life Hong Kong style!
The upside of living in sardine tins is that about half of HK's land area is Country Parks (like national parks, except HK isn't a nation) - from just about anywhere in the urban areas you can reach one or more beaches and/or hiking trails in 30 minutes or less  Even better, you can do a thorough spring-cleaning of your entire flat in 2 hours  |
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Joshua2006
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| sistercream wrote: |
Even better, you can do a thorough spring-cleaning of your entire flat in 2 hours |
2 hours? Do you stop and watch a movie half way though...? |
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sistercream
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 497
Location: Pearl River Delta
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Joshua2006 wrote: |
| sistercream wrote: |
Even better, you can do a thorough spring-cleaning of your entire flat in 2 hours |
2 hours? Do you stop and watch a movie half way though...? |
Nope, but I do include dismantling the range hood and cleaning it bit by bit  |
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RiverMystic
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 1986
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Kind of off-topic, I know, but its interesting in a place where money and security is at the core of the collective psyche, that the SAR has ended up producing a quality of life that is deeply impoverished at almost every level. Even if you do reasonably well, and pull in, say 40 000 a month for your hosuehold, you are still stuck in a tiny box 40 floors up in the sky working 12 hours a day, communicating with nobody most of the time (ever see HKers talking to anyone they don't know?). The whole process creates an almost incredible conditioning process, such that most people never do take advantage of the wonderful parks and hikes all over HK. Most kids in HK have never been camping, and many have never hiked. Given the option of fiddling with a gadget or connecting with nature, 99% of the population would choose the gdget. It's like dogs raised in boxes for experiments. After a while, they just feel at home in the box, and stay close to it, even though it has effectively imprisoned them.
Is it any wonder people look so utterly depressed most of the time. |
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sistercream
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 497
Location: Pearl River Delta
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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RiverMystic, should I ever get the insane urge to do a PhD, I think I'd do my thesis on this very subject (just as a change from teaching  ).
What you say is quite true about the upper (middle) classes, it is a trend that has been developing in my home country as incomes have improved, I can see it happening in Macau since the big American casino resorts have opened (the wages they pay nearly doubled the average income here in less than a year*), I see it happening in high income areas on the mainland.
For more street life (as opposed to lots of people rushing along the street like ants), conversations in lifts and markets, and meeting people who spend their days off in the out of doors, head out to Tuen Mun, Tin Shui Wai, and other working class and public housing areas. It's one of the reasons I live in such places for preference
* just from observation among my local friends and their families; no empirical data. |
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SahanRiddhi
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure how you think you'd do a Ph.D when you can't produce empirical data.
The plural of anecdote is not data, by the way.
Not everyone is cut out for the academic life, so I wouldn't sweat it. |
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oxi
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 347
Location: elsewhere
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| SahanRiddhi wrote: |
Not sure how you think you'd do a Ph.D when you can't produce empirical data.
The plural of anecdote is not data, by the way.
Not everyone is cut out for the academic life, so I wouldn't sweat it. |
Boring troll. Showed as much intelligence as here:-
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=941560&highlight=#941560
If you felt people were rude to you in that posting, perhaps you shouldn't bring your bitterness here |
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SahanRiddhi
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Nice that you have nothing better to do than follow me from thread to thread playing yeratroll. You know, "Yer a troll, no, YER a troll!"
I hope you find more meaningful ways to spend your time in the future. |
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Joshua2006
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| RiverMystic wrote: |
Kind of off-topic, I know, but its interesting in a place where money and security is at the core of the collective psyche, that the SAR has ended up producing a quality of life that is deeply impoverished at almost every level. Even if you do reasonably well, and pull in, say 40 000 a month for your hosuehold, you are still stuck in a tiny box 40 floors up in the sky working 12 hours a day, communicating with nobody most of the time (ever see HKers talking to anyone they don't know?). The whole process creates an almost incredible conditioning process, such that most people never do take advantage of the wonderful parks and hikes all over HK. Most kids in HK have never been camping, and many have never hiked. Given the option of fiddling with a gadget or connecting with nature, 99% of the population would choose the gdget. It's like dogs raised in boxes for experiments. After a while, they just feel at home in the box, and stay close to it, even though it has effectively imprisoned them.
Is it any wonder people look so utterly depressed most of the time. |
I understand what you are saying but that doesn't mean I agree with what you are saying.
Let's liken it to another country say.....Korea.
People work just as many hours there. Well, stand outside offices smoking claiming it is a form of work. They then go out after work every night and get severely screwed up on soju. They come home late, having puked at least three times on the pavement outside their 'house'. The kids are already in bed or haven't come home from their academies. They pass out, only to wake at 6.30 to do exactly the same thing.
They do go hiking on weekends and they do go camping. However, so does everyone else....at the same time....in the same place.....with the same tent.....and with the same silver colour car.....with the same gas ring.....and end up getting just as drunk as everyone else....and then they all head back to Seoul at the same time on Sunday night.
Yet they still remain ignorant and rude and also never smile at each other, just foreigner's green.
Having lived there and just returned from a visit, I can safely say that the money I earn and the house that I own here in HK and the life that I have could never be replaced by what I left behind. I think the people in HK cohabit amazingly well and without fuss. Everyone just gets on with their lives without interfering with others in any whatsoever.....it's refreshing.
HK is a good place to be...... |
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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 792
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Joshua2006 wrote: |
| RiverMystic wrote: |
Kind of off-topic, I know, but its interesting in a place where money and security is at the core of the collective psyche, that the SAR has ended up producing a quality of life that is deeply impoverished at almost every level. Even if you do reasonably well, and pull in, say 40 000 a month for your hosuehold, you are still stuck in a tiny box 40 floors up in the sky working 12 hours a day, communicating with nobody most of the time (ever see HKers talking to anyone they don't know?). The whole process creates an almost incredible conditioning process, such that most people never do take advantage of the wonderful parks and hikes all over HK. Most kids in HK have never been camping, and many have never hiked. Given the option of fiddling with a gadget or connecting with nature, 99% of the population would choose the gdget. It's like dogs raised in boxes for experiments. After a while, they just feel at home in the box, and stay close to it, even though it has effectively imprisoned them.
Is it any wonder people look so utterly depressed most of the time. |
I understand what you are saying but that doesn't mean I agree with what you are saying.
Let's liken it to another country say.....Korea.
People work just as many hours there. Well, stand outside offices smoking claiming it is a form of work. They then go out after work every night and get severely screwed up on soju. They come home late, having puked at least three times on the pavement outside their 'house'. The kids are already in bed or haven't come home from their academies. They pass out, only to wake at 6.30 to do exactly the same thing.
They do go hiking on weekends and they do go camping. However, so does everyone else....at the same time....in the same place.....with the same tent.....and with the same silver colour car.....with the same gas ring.....and end up getting just as drunk as everyone else....and then they all head back to Seoul at the same time on Sunday night.
Yet they still remain ignorant and rude and also never smile at each other, just foreigner's green.
Having lived there and just returned from a visit, I can safely say that the money I earn and the house that I own here in HK and the life that I have could never be replaced by what I left behind. I think the people in HK cohabit amazingly well and without fuss. Everyone just gets on with their lives without interfering with others in any whatsoever.....it's refreshing.
HK is a good place to be...... |
Ages since I dropped into the forum. The issues raised in this thread and above are ones I dwell on a lot.
Have to say I'm in strong agreement with River Mystic. Like you Joshua I lived in Korea before coming to HK and for me Korea beats HK hands down in most respects. I found the people there to be more interesting, more outgoing and confident - yes they enjoy a drink, thanks be - and the country generally has more sense of history and purpose and (obviously) has far more in the way of open space and fresh air.
So far as HK goes, I couldn't agree more that generally locals don't know how to enjoy themselves and are obsessed with the accumulation of money, which does not in itself provide happiness. The happiest people here seem to me to be the domestic helpers, who are among the poorest but who have a more optimistic angle on life and know how to have fun.
And yes, although we often earn good incomes in HK, as often as not we can't enjoy it, either because we're overworked and stressed out or we simply still don't earn enough. My wife and my joint income is well over HK$100,000 a month, yet we can't even buy a 700 square foot flat. |
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the_otter
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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*reads descriptions of Korea and Hong Kong*
Now I think I'm lucky to be on the Mainland. |
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Joshua2006
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| the_otter wrote: |
*reads descriptions of Korea and Hong Kong*
Now I think I'm lucky to be on the Mainland. |
Korea and HK are both good places to be.....don't get us wrong on that. |
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RiverMystic
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 1986
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Joshua2006 wrote: |
| RiverMystic wrote: |
Is it any wonder people look so utterly depressed most of the time. |
I understand what you are saying but that doesn't mean I agree with what you are saying.
HK is a good place to be...... |
I don't think you know what it is like being a typical person here. Just take a look on the faces of people on the MTR. There is a pervasive depression and sense of repression in many here. I am not knocking Hong Kong or HK people. I am just telling you something that you will discover for yourself sooner or later. The values adopted by the city over a number of years have robbed the people of the SAR of quality of life. That much is true.
The latest stats out are that Hong Kong finished not far from last last out of 294 Chinese cities surveyed, in terms of happiness.
This is not a happy place.
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HK a bastion of unhappiness? That's rich
Gary Cheung
May 07, 2011
If happiness is a measure of economic success, as China's 12th five-year plan affirms, we could be in trouble.
Hongkongers, while rich, are among the least happy in the nation, according to an annual study by the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences - the central government's top think tank. The city was named the most competitive in China for the sixth year in a row, but it dropped 73 places to 271st out of 294 cities on an index measuring people's happiness.
The annual survey covers the mainland, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan. It assesses cities' happiness by measuring residents' confidence in their future, their living conditions, environment and hygiene, employment and social welfare.
Shijiazhuang , capital of Hebei province and the base for the Sanlu Group - blamed for the melamine-adulterated milk scandal in 2008 that saw 300,000 babies fall ill and several die - ranked first for happiness. Beijing is also in the top 10, together with a number of less well-known medium-sized cities.
Surprisingly, scenic Suzhou and Hangzhou - known in Chinese culture as "paradise on earth" are even more unhappy than Hong Kong - ranked 276th and 289th, respectively. Popular holiday destination Guilin ranks 291st.
The report notes Hong Kong is facing a widening gap between the rich and poor that could undermine social stability.
Dr Li Pang-kwong, director of the public governance programme at Lingnan University, said: "Hong Kong's low ranking in the happiness index is in line with the growing discontent over the unequal distribution of wealth."
Chen Wenling, a central government official from Shijiazhuang who announced the findings, admitted many people may not agree with the index. "Every time I return to Shijiazhuang, I hear complaints," she said at a press conference in Beijing yesterday.
The 12th five-year plan seeks to shift economic strategy from one focused on rising output to one centred on people's happiness. |
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Joshua2006
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| RiverMystic wrote: |
I don't think you know what it is like being a typical person here. Just take a look on the faces of people on the MTR. There is a pervasive depression and sense of repression in many here. I am not knocking Hong Kong or HK people. I am just telling you something that you will discover for yourself sooner or later. The values adopted by the city over a number of years have robbed the people of the SAR of quality of life. That much is true.
The latest stats out are that Hong Kong finished not far from last last out of 294 Chinese cities surveyed, in terms of happiness.
This is not a happy place.
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I think people cohabit better here than any other place in which I lived.
I think the people on the MTR look no different to any other MTR that I have been on.
I think the general level of 'normality' is equal here to anywhere else I have lived.
I honestly believe that this is a much better place to live than two other major capitals that I have lived in.
The friendliness of random people is much better here than other places that I have lived.
However, that's just my take on it.....but everyone else I know and have met have the same opinion - HK is a good place to be. |
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RiverMystic
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 1986
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 3:09 am Post subject: |
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You must have lived in some pretty depressisng places, Joshua. I have never lived in a place where people looked this unhappy. not even close. I spent a lot of time in other countries, including mainland China and Taiwan, and the people there are much happer than here. The statistics mentioned tell the truth.
This is not a friendly place. It is not hostile (most of the time) but it is almost completely devoid of friendliness. I have been in Hong Kong many years, and the number times anyone has spoken to me in a public place I could count on the fingers of one hand. That includes people who live on the same floor as me in my apartment building. Unless you initiate conversation, people won't acknowledge your existence. There is almost zero eye contct between human beings in public places, which is the prime indicator of social intimacy.
If you are talking about the expat lifestyle, that is something different altogether. I am talking about life for locals.
My Chinese wife refuses to return to Hong Kong, for the very reasons I mentioned. She is very outgoing, but could not find anyone here who would talk to her. She made only one friend here in three years, and that was a neighbour. She is a highly intelligent and articulate woman, and speaks several languages. She became extremely depressed, and for her own sanity, she had to return to a place where people are more open and warm. |
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