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Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

I look at it this way:

-Doing EFL after first doing something else -- as easy as falling off a log.

-Doing something else after first doing EFL -- not so easy.

When you're young, you think it's going to be relatively simple to go back later and get an MBA, law degree, etc. and get into something else. It's not. It can be cost-prohibitive under the best of circumstances. If you have kids or other family responsibilities, much harder. And once you have the degree, not everyone wants to hire a freshly graduated (insert whatever "serious" career you want to put here) who is 34 or 39 or 52 years old with no experience except EFL. You're older than the other "no experience" candidates, and the competitors your age have experience.

The rat race is a lot easier to get out of than to get into!

jimmy86 · Joined: 14 Feb 2010 Posts: 5

First off, I'd like to thank everyone for their great insight and advice. You guys really are a wealth of knowledge. I'm sorry if I gave off the impression that I wasn't very interested in teaching, that couldn't be further from the truth. Both my siblins are teachers here in america, a route I would be interested in myself but its almost impossible to get hired as a teacher here now. The same thing goes with business jobs, it seems the only jobs out there now are dead end sales jobs or retail. I had a scholarship and worked during school so I have no loans. I have another question, it seems like money is a common complaint amongst everybody, which I can understand if your working in western europe or japan but in a lot of the third world countries/regions (south east asia, latin america, eastern europe) aren't you guys paid similar to what locals are paid? Can't you eventually learn the language, get permanent residency, buy a home etc in a low cost of living country and assimilate there and live a middle class lifestyle?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I have another question, it seems like money is a common complaint amongst everybody, which I can understand if your working in western europe or japan but in a lot of the third world countries/regions (south east asia, latin america, eastern europe) aren't you guys paid similar to what locals are paid? Can't you eventually learn the language, get permanent residency, buy a home etc in a low cost of living country and assimilate there and live a middle class lifestyle?

I dunno anything about other regions, but I can speak for Central/Eastern Europe on this.

Locals are:
1. Mostly living in housing that costs FAR less than what an expat will pay (it's in the family or subsidised by governments in ways that expats are not eligible for) - and housing alone can take up as much as 50 percent of a salary. Not conducive to savings.
2. Not usually living in single-income families - as an expat English teacher mostly will be. Again, not conducive to savings.
3. Permanent residency isn't an option in many situations short of marrying a local (which may happen, but not something one can bank on, obviously).
4. Buying a home in these regions requires substantial cash up front - it's not like North America, where a 5 or 10 percent down payment suffices - you often need to pay FAR more up front to get a mortgage. Requires savings, obviously.

Seriously, I have friends living in Central/Eastern Europe for whom buying a bike, never mind a car, after several years of work in the region, is still a major investment.

It's not all gloom and doom, but I seriously suggest that newbies DO NOT take for granted a middle-class lifestyle in Central/Eastern Europe. It might be do-able, given very good local connections, but it's NOT so easy as to be something to count upon.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:31 am Post subject:

TeresaLopez · Joined: 18 Apr 2010 Posts: 601 Location: Mexico City

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

fladude · Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 432

Here is the other reality check.

You stay in America, get a professional graduate degree, and end up at 35 flat broke with a ton of student loans and nothing to show for it. The 150k jobs that a previous poster said you were going to get never happened. You got worked to death for 10 years by an employer and one day you wake up and realize that they will never pay you more than 50 or 60k and that they will never promote you so you tell them to screw it (which is what happened to me) or you they downsize you and eliminate your position (which happened to tons of other people that I know). Most people never get the 150k jobs. And the number of jobs like that are decreasing every year. So you end up on the ass end of 40, flat broke and with no adventure or travel to show for it. I speak from experience.

45k or even 60k probably sounds a lot better than what you will get overseas. But America is a rigged game. It is designed to suck every dime out of you. You probably won't save a penny.

Happened to me. And its happened to lots of other people I know as well. Even the ones who did not go broke... well most of them are deep in debt, and struggling to get by on 45 to 60k. I could still be one of them if I hadn't told my boss to shove it. Working 360 days a year for 45k is well just not worth it. Some of the people who do that are paying into SS others are getting a State pension which is not guaranteed by the Federal Government (so it may be worth nothing). And they do not get SS if they get a State pension. Business 401k plans might be worthless as well.

The fact is that there are a lot of moaners on here, who wine about their life choices, but the fact is that all life choices can suck. These people made a choice and they dream about the choices that could of been. How they could have had a 150k job if only...... if only they had stayed in America and sent out a few dozen more resumes... the 150k job would have been theirs... LOL. Bulls***.

You might fail in ESL or you might do ok. You won't ever get that magic 150k job, but you probably won't get that in America either. The middle class dream is dead.

naturegirl321 · Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home

What flatdude says is true, as it what the other posters say.

I honestly think that it comes down to budgeting. SOme people can live on 10K a year and others barely scrape by on 100K a year. Budget and save for retirement now. Diversify, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

maastricht · Joined: 11 Feb 2011 Posts: 38

maastricht · Joined: 11 Feb 2011 Posts: 38

I would also recommend seeing the movie "Wall Street" and reading some books such as "Den of Thieves" and "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man."

If you ask yourself how someone could make billions of dollars just by pushing paper around for 2 minutes, while someone else slaves away for 5 cents an hour and doesn't have food, you are probably not the right person for this kind of job. The 150k tools are the foot soldiers of this system. If you have any sort of conscience, you are probably going to be unhappy. The people I know who do this type of work and are happy have no conscience. None whatsoever. Others do it and hate it and wish they could leave.

I also know people who make way more than that and just became extremely good at something (like cooking) and turned it into a successful business.