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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ninjamon wrote: |
| Part of the point of going to Japan is to be in a country where we both have a fair shake of being employed, even if the work is not ideal. |
And, just exactly are both of you looking to do for work? Any idea for how long?
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My wife is pretty old fashioned and I doubt her personality would change much on arrival in Japan. Indeed, it is her "Japaneseness" which has made living in the UK difficult for her. |
In that case, I would have to guess that she would not want to leave Japan again once she is entrenched. Keep that in mind.
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If you don't have a master's degree in some EFL-related field, and a few publications, I wouldn't expect you to get any university positions here. Perhaps something PT, but even those are often requiring those qualifications a lot nowadays. If you are interested in looking at non-teaching jobs, tell us what you bring to the negotiating table....
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I don't expect to be able to work at a university in Japan. I work in university administration in the UK in a planning department. I have high level Access and Excel skills, some familiarity with SQL server. I also have some (minor) project management experience that I can point to. My work mainly involves predicting numbers, modelling, strategic analysis that sort of thing. |
Just what do you plan to do for work? Teaching is about your only easy-to-land option.
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Looking at the JLPT level 2 appears to involve 1000 kanji and 6000 vocab word level. I think this should be doable for me in a couple of years (10 words a day over 2 years and I already know about 2 to 3000 chinese characters). Does this sound reasonable? |
Were you planning to do that in Japan or before you come? The time frame for getting JLPT2 from scratch depends on so many factors that I cannot say if it's possible or not. But, bear in mind these things:
1. You will be looking for work or getting used to a new cultural environment, so you will be very distracted from studying.
2. Even if you consider yourself studious, the fact remains that you will have to have a lot of self-discipline to avoid many events or activities that would otherwise draw you away. That includes going out a lot with fellow foreigners.
3. Your wife teaches Japanese, you say, but is she willing to do that with you? My own wife is not a teacher, but on top of that she just plainly admits that she cannot give me the advice I need. If yours is working, or if you have kids, she will find it difficult to have time.
Depending on what job you have your sights on, just having JLPT2 (or its new equivalent since they revamped the JLPT system) will not be enough in many cases. Why hire someone with less than perfect Japanese for a non-teaching job when a local person (Japanese) will do? You will usually need the proper education and experience/skills to land a non-teaching job.
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| The plan is one kid, the missus works part time, bilingual, Japanese school. Nationality would be up to the kid, haven't discussed. |
My kid is 7. Although my wife dearly wants to work PT, she has not been able to find what she would like, partly because of location. The bigger reason she has not worked is lack of time. You can't imagine how much time is sucked away from a woman's life when kids come in. |
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bobbysix
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Hi, you mention that you would need at least 250k a month - once you have a family, that will be nowhere near enough - pension and helathcare payments alone will take at least 50-100k a month, and tax (including residents tax) will take about 50k a month.
That would leave you with 100k a month to live on, Sure it's possible, but you won't have much spare cash, that's for sure.
And think about when you are 50 years old and still earning 250k a month, what about then? |
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ninjamon
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
And, just exactly are both of you looking to do for work? Any idea for how long?
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Thanks for returning to the thread. English would be the obvious first job, I would then look to get the language down in a couple of years and look for something else. I am looking into various options - what leaps to mind are doing the Applied Linguistics MA with a view to post 16 or university work (very difficult to land, I know), perhaps translation, hotel work maybe. The work thing is the key issue. Even though we would be rent/mortgage free, I am very much aware of the need for a reasonable long term plan. My research is in its early stages.
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In that case, I would have to guess that she would not want to leave Japan again once she is entrenched. Keep that in mind.
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I am!
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Just what do you plan to do for work?
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Other than teaching English, I don't know. It concerns me greatly - I have no illusions about the difficulty of getting non English teaching jobs.
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Were you planning to do that in Japan or before you come?
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Start now, continue on arrival
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The time frame for getting JLPT2 from scratch depends on so many factors that I cannot say if it's possible or not. But, bear in mind these things:
1. You will be looking for work or getting used to a new cultural environment, so you will be very distracted from studying.
2. Even if you consider yourself studious, the fact remains that you will have to have a lot of self-discipline to avoid many events or activities that would otherwise draw you away. That includes going out a lot with fellow foreigners.
3. Your wife teaches Japanese, you say, but is she willing to do that with you? My own wife is not a teacher, but on top of that she just plainly admits that she cannot give me the advice I need. If yours is working, or if you have kids, she will find it difficult to have time.
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Thanks for that. I have a lot of self discipline (easy to say I know, but I think I am self aware enough to know my strengths and weaknesses pretty well). I am not going to Japan to party, I am going there mainly to knuckle down. It will be a tough life - I have few illusions about that. However I am not a huge social animal and am quite happy it being just myself and the wife most of the time. My wife would be happy to help me but I am also a decent autodidact, having taught myself Chinese.
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Why hire someone with less than perfect Japanese for a non-teaching job when a local person (Japanese) will do? You will usually need the proper education and experience/skills to land a non-teaching job.
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Exactly. I am thinking through my options carefully, and will probably need to do training in addition to the language learning.
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Hi, you mention that you would need at least 250k a month - once you have a family, that will be nowhere near enough - pension and helathcare payments alone will take at least 50-100k a month, and tax (including residents tax) will take about 50k a month.
That would leave you with 100k a month to live on, Sure it's possible, but you won't have much spare cash, that's for sure.
And think about when you are 50 years old and still earning 250k a month, what about then?
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Hi. Thanks for posting. I don't follow your assumptions. If the average teaching job is 250k and tax, healthcare and pension take 150k then how do single people live in Japan? My current tax, healthcare and pension take some 35% of my gross salary currently, you appear to be arguing it is close to double that in Japan. I would assume that housing has got to take a minimum 50k a month which leaves 50k for everything else (food, transport, utilities). Is that really accurate? I think you are right, living on 250k a month maybe unpleasant, even if mortgage free.
Thanks very much for the thoughtful responses everyone - much appreciated! |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ninjamon wrote: |
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Hi, you mention that you would need at least 250k a month - once you have a family, that will be nowhere near enough - pension and helathcare payments alone will take at least 50-100k a month, and tax (including residents tax) will take about 50k a month.
That would leave you with 100k a month to live on, Sure it's possible, but you won't have much spare cash, that's for sure.
And think about when you are 50 years old and still earning 250k a month, what about then?
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Hi. Thanks for posting. I don't follow your assumptions. If the average teaching job is 250k and tax, healthcare and pension take 150k then how do single people live in Japan? My current tax, healthcare and pension take some 35% of my gross salary currently, you appear to be arguing it is close to double that in Japan. I would assume that housing has got to take a minimum 50k a month which leaves 50k for everything else (food, transport, utilities). Is that really accurate? I think you are right, living on 250k a month maybe unpleasant, even if mortgage free. |
You're right. The guy has gotten his math all wrong and has basically gone through, simply doubling all the high-end amounts for health inurance, pension and tax because there would be two adults when in truth it wouldn't work like that unless both were working FT and hence earning 500k/month.
A single person can live quite comfortably and put away up to 100k/month (assuming the person isn't a party animal and isn't paying top end, major city rent.) So yes, a small family on a very strict budget can get by on 250k/month, especially since you have the added bonus of free accomodation.
You won't be able to save much if anything though. So you should definately wait at least a couple of years before having any kids. That way your wife can at least work PT to bring in a little saving money (never a good idea to live payday to payday and kids are money-eating little b*****ds) whilst you focus studying and training up so that by time she leaves work to have kid(s) (or goes on maternity leave for a few years... not all women do retire completely) you will hopefully be earning a bit more than 250k/month to support your family when the time comes. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| ninjamon wrote: |
| I don't follow your assumptions. If the average teaching job is 250k and tax, healthcare and pension take 150k then how do single people live in Japan? |
Many single people are single up to their late 20s or early 30s. Those are the respective ages for women and men getting married these days. So, they often stay at home and save far more than if they were supporting themselves. Also, many share apartments. And, who says young people actually save today anyway? That's not the trend I've heard of. Parasite singles, NEETs, and freeters come to mind.
http://www.socwork.net/2005/2/socialreports/500/Inui2005.pdf
http://japanfocus.org/-Kosugi-Reiko/2022
http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php?itemid=907&catid=24&subcatid=156
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20081020a6.html
http://www.slate.com/id/2263805/
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| I am looking into various options - what leaps to mind are doing the Applied Linguistics MA with a view to post 16 |
Uh, what is "post 16"?
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| or university work (very difficult to land, I know |
Yes, hard, and it usually requires a master's degree (minimum) in a specialized related field, some Japanese language ability, experience teaching in Japan, and several publications. Expect very stiff competition for practically every job, even PT. Your advantage would be that if you have a spouse visa, you wouldn't need employer sponsorship for a work visa, and you could take up PT work instead of relying on FT jobs to support yourself. Bad news is, aside from the competition and closing of schools, you'll have to run around like a headless chicken with all the PT work you need to survive, and you'll have to deal with the many types of politics at each institution.
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| perhaps translation, hotel work maybe. |
Translation: I know a couple of people who did that with about JLPT2. It was incredibly boring and tedious work, with spurts of huge overtime. It was also very lonely work, since you do everything alone. The pay, by the way, was no better than teaching English.
Hotel work: Do you really think that would be a long-term endeavor for a family man? Were you thinking bellboy/captain or something higher? |
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Piri-Piri
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 24
Location: Osaka
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Angelfish wrote: |
| If I were in the exact position you're in, I would buy property in the UK and rent it out through an agency (minimal stress for you). |
As a UK homeowner living in Japan, I would caution against this. It's good to have something to return to, but it's not a "minimal stress" option. Agencies charge quite a lot and aren't necessarily reliable; calls late at night (due to the 9hr timezone difference) to make sure things get done become old, fast. Mortgages are not cheap and securing one at a distance could be problematic. Even with a mortgage below 50% of the value of the property you could find yourself barely breaking even, especially once costs such as repair/depreciation and other management fees are taken into account. Should you decide to sell, you will be liable for capital gains tax unless you've lived in the property as your main home within the last two years.
If you're going to do it, buy a property that is new so that it will need little maintenance for the first 10-15 years. Make sure you have reliable, local contacts back in the UK who you can trust to take care of things should you have problems (for example, if you wanted to change management agent or if a repair needed doing and someone had to go around and unlock the place for a tradesman to do the work or provide a quote). Which tradesman would you use?
Last but not least you'll need to register as a non-resident landlord and complete an annual tax return or your rental income will (I think) be taxed at 60%.
I'd rather not own my UK property to be honest. I've tried to sell it but nobody will buy it. That's the only reason it's still mine. The money would be more useful - I could do an MA so I don't have to teach in Eikaiwa until my hair is as white as chalk.  |
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inuzuki8605
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 98
Location: America
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Piri-Piri wrote: |
As a UK homeowner living in Japan, I would caution against this. It's good to have something to return to, but it's not a "minimal stress" option. Agencies charge quite a lot and aren't necessarily reliable; calls late at night (due to the 9hr timezone difference) to make sure things get done become old, fast. Mortgages are not cheap and securing one at a distance could be problematic. Even with a mortgage below 50% of the value of the property you could find yourself barely breaking even, especially once costs such as repair/depreciation and other management fees are taken into account. Should you decide to sell, you will be liable for capital gains tax unless you've lived in the property as your main home within the last two years.
If you're going to do it, buy a property that is new so that it will need little maintenance for the first 10-15 years. Make sure you have reliable, local contacts back in the UK who you can trust to take care of things should you have problems (for example, if you wanted to change management agent or if a repair needed doing and someone had to go around and unlock the place for a tradesman to do the work or provide a quote). Which tradesman would you use?
Last but not least you'll need to register as a non-resident landlord and complete an annual tax return or your rental income will (I think) be taxed at 60%.
I'd rather not own my UK property to be honest. I've tried to sell it but nobody will buy it. That's the only reason it's still mine. The money would be more useful - I could do an MA so I don't have to teach in Eikaiwa until my hair is as white as chalk. |
I could be wrong, but I think it's either one or the other. Because this move will be final, I don't think Ninjamom will need to buy two houses in two countries. |
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bobbysix
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| ninjamon wrote: |
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Hi, you mention that you would need at least 250k a month - once you have a family, that will be nowhere near enough - pension and helathcare payments alone will take at least 50-100k a month, and tax (including residents tax) will take about 50k a month.
That would leave you with 100k a month to live on, Sure it's possible, but you won't have much spare cash, that's for sure.
And think about when you are 50 years old and still earning 250k a month, what about then?
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Hi. Thanks for posting. I don't follow your assumptions. If the average teaching job is 250k and tax, healthcare and pension take 150k then how do single people live in Japan? My current tax, healthcare and pension take some 35% of my gross salary currently, you appear to be arguing it is close to double that in Japan. I would assume that housing has got to take a minimum 50k a month which leaves 50k for everything else (food, transport, utilities). Is that really accurate? I think you are right, living on 250k a month maybe unpleasant, even if mortgage free. |
You're right. The guy has gotten his math all wrong and has basically gone through, simply doubling all the high-end amounts for health inurance, pension and tax because there would be two adults when in truth it wouldn't work like that unless both were working FT and hence earning 500k/month.
A single person can live quite comfortably and put away up to 100k/month (assuming the person isn't a party animal and isn't paying top end, major city rent.) So yes, a small family on a very strict budget can get by on 250k/month, especially since you have the added bonus of free accomodation.
You won't be able to save much if anything though. So you should definately wait at least a couple of years before having any kids. That way your wife can at least work PT to bring in a little saving money (never a good idea to live payday to payday and kids are money-eating little b*****ds) whilst you focus studying and training up so that by time she leaves work to have kid(s) (or goes on maternity leave for a few years... not all women do retire completely) you will hopefully be earning a bit more than 250k/month to support your family when the time comes. |
The figures I quoted were a bit on the high side (I just put what I pay in a month, but then I earn almost double an ALT salary), but the reality of teaching English in Japan is that it is very difficult to make over 250k a month as an ALT even if you've been doing it for years.
I don't want to rain on your parade but you must think about the long term future of teaching English in Japan before you decide to settle here for good. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| bobbysix wrote: |
The figures I quoted were a bit on the high side (I just put what I pay in a month, but then I earn almost double an ALT salary), but the reality of teaching English in Japan is that it is very difficult to make over 250k a month as an ALT even if you've been doing it for years.
I don't want to rain on your parade but you must think about the long term future of teaching English in Japan before you decide to settle here for good. |
Then why are quoting figures based on your almost double ALT salary and applying them to 250,000/month?
And if you actually read his posts then you would realise that he was actually thinking long term and considering ways to get into other lines of work other than entry level ESL eventually.
And @ Glenski: Post 16 is non compulsory education for kids normally aged 16-18 that comes between compulsory education and university. So normally years 12 and 13 (sixth form) in school for A Levels(AS+A2)/GNVQ2s or equivalent or in college for either the afore mentioned qualifications or for lower level qualifications if they flunked school the first time round and were thus unable to get accepted onto A Level level courses.
So I guess he means high school aged kids here. |
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bobbysix
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| bobbysix wrote: |
The figures I quoted were a bit on the high side (I just put what I pay in a month, but then I earn almost double an ALT salary), but the reality of teaching English in Japan is that it is very difficult to make over 250k a month as an ALT even if you've been doing it for years.
I don't want to rain on your parade but you must think about the long term future of teaching English in Japan before you decide to settle here for good. |
Then why are quoting figures based on your almost double ALT salary and applying them to 250,000/month?
And if you actually read his posts then you would realise that he was actually thinking long term and considering ways to get into other lines of work other than entry level ESL eventually.
And @ Glenski: Post 16 is non compulsory education for kids normally aged 16-18 that comes between compulsory education and university. So normally years 12 and 13 (sixth form) in school for A Levels(AS+A2)/GNVQ2s or equivalent or in college for either the afore mentioned qualifications or for lower level qualifications if they flunked school the first time round and were thus unable to get accepted onto A Level level courses.
So I guess he means high school aged kids here. |
Looking for a way out of English teaching? Just like 99% of long term gaijin here in Japan. The truth being that most lack the qualifications and experience to ever do so.
Having good Japanese just doesn't cut it - there are 127 million people who can speak Japanese here already - why would they hire you over a Japanese?
Like I mentioned before, if you are planning on living in Japan long term, you should be aware of your employment opportunities. |
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ninjamon
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| bobbysix wrote: |
Looking for a way out of English teaching? Just like 99% of long term gaijin here in Japan. The truth being that most lack the qualifications and experience to ever do so.
Having good Japanese just doesn't cut it - there are 127 million people who can speak Japanese here already - why would they hire you over a Japanese?
Like I mentioned before, if you are planning on living in Japan long term, you should be aware of your employment opportunities. |
Sure. Thanks to everyone for the contributions. I suppose my answer to the above would be to say if I can get my Japanese up quickly, then I would have both fluent English and Japanese which few Japanese can claim to have. Anyway, I am currently researching my options carefully. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I would suggest that the experience of Japan is rather different for those with Japanese nationals as family. I suspect that this comes from the perception that a gaijin married to a Japanese national is more stable and less likely to fuck off at a moment's notice. My experience of life here has certainly been that way, although your mileage might vary - a sample of 1 is not one that can be generalised.
250k is an entry-level salary. Freelancing, opening your own school (a dicey proposition, I admit) and taking on private students whose needs you can actually service could earn you far more. Without undertaking a higher-level qualification, though, I would suggest that it's not something to build your future on; and that the really peachy jobs will be forever out of reach.
If you've got a couple of years teaching experience under your belt, you can do a master's degree in TESOL part-time or via distance while you sort out your move to Japan. This qualification will open a lot of doors, and will help to provide you with the financial muscle to move out of EFL if your Japanese is good enough. UK qualifications in non-EFL related areas, for example, might help you find a non-EFL job in Japan, although I can't make any representations as to the validity of that statement. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| 250k is an entry-level salary. Freelancing, opening your own school (a dicey proposition, I admit) and taking on private students whose needs you can actually service could earn you far more. Without undertaking a higher-level qualification, though, I would suggest that it's not something to build your future on; and that the really peachy jobs will be forever out of reach. |
Moreover, one cannot just come here and set up such a shop. That requires a business/investor visa, not a work visa, and there are certain things you must satisfy for immigration. |
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gwynnie86
Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| If you work for a company that lets you do private lessons (like Interac), you can pick up a LOT of extra money on the side. For example, one-on-one you can charge anything from 2000-4000円 an hour just for conversation. If you find some classes (from kindergarten to adults) you can make anywhere from 2000-6000円 an hour. For example, I just heard of a 4-hour stint on Saturdays near me with kindergarten kids that pays 15,000円 for four hours. Imagine that you did that and you had, say, 3 private classes a week (2 hours an evening) at an average of 4000円 a night... that's over $1000 extra a month!! You might be a little burnt out, but most of those classes just involve speaking, sometimes just over coffee.... |
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inuzuki8605
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 98
Location: America
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I can vouch for this! When I studied in Japan, private teaching jobs just fell into my lap. I was holding lessons with a Professor, a grad student, and two elementary school sisters, making enough money to not have to touch my american account unless I went on trips around Japan. If you get an ALT position that ends at 16:30 or 17:00, it would be easy to hold private lessons after that a few times a weeks. Who knows, you could find yourself teaching and child of the CEO of a company that needs English speakers! |
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