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No.1 Travel - actual prices?
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CarolinaBen

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 78

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:33 am Post subject:

When I travel, I am really just looking for the best deal period. If you would rather spend 30,000+ yen to purchase a ticket from a company you feel better about, go for it. I don't have a lot of money and usually opt for the best price.

CarolinaBen

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 78

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:42 am Post subject:

Let me give an example! Mcdonald's is offering a Big Mac for $1. When you order the Big Mac it turns out to be $2. Let's say that Burger King is offering a Big Mac type sandwich for $3. When you find out the actual price at Mcdonalds, you could do 2 things. #1 Get pissed off and go on the internet and bash Mcdonald's. They promised me a Big Mac for $1 and it ruined my entire day.... sob sob sob #2 Realize that even if Mcdonald's lied to me about the price, it is still a better deal than buying the sandwich at Burger King. Let me issue a challenge. Price airfare to a destination during Golden Week. Look at a flight through H.I.S. across 1 travel, and then look at other airline companies. If you double the across 1 travel rate, it will still be cheaper than booking directly from the airline.

PG_Tips

Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Posts: 20
Location: TYO

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:00 am Post subject:

CarolinaBen wrote:

Let me issue a challenge. Price airfare to a destination during Golden Week. Look at a flight through H.I.S. across 1 travel, and then look at other airline companies. If you double the across 1 travel rate, it will still be cheaper than booking directly from the airline.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I wouldn't buy direct, in fact you and I probably share the same idea about this. I just think that some people don't care that much and splash out on buying from the airline.

As for travelling during golden week, I leave that to the sheep Razz

the4th2001

Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 130
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject:

David W wrote:

the4th2001 wrote:

PG_Tips wrote:

I was looking for a cheap flight to the UK last October for January this year.

No.1 Travel and Across Travel both quoted me at around 260,000 JPY - via Schipol (KLM) or CDG Paris (AirFrance). [. . .] There are a few 'foreigner friendly' agents who market themselves in that manner just to overcharge an unsuspecting market. Foreigners they may peg as being limited in exploring cheaper alternatives due to language barriers.

I double checked just for fun, but No.1 Travel is owned by H.I.S. and they charge the same prices. I don't see how they are 'marketing themselves just to overcharge an unsuspecting market' when the organization as a whole offers other markets the same price. A little paranoid, no?

HIS is well known for scamming foreigners. Avoid them and their equally scummy offshoots at all costs.
For the best prices and zero hassles go direct to the airline web-sites.

How do they scam foreigners if they buy tickets off of their website? You know the final price before you enter your name and other information (nationality included).

Really though, what scams are you talking about? The only thing I can think of is a few years back when H.I.S. offered Japanese nationals cheaper tickets for select flights at select times. Yasuku something or another. The tickets had all sorts of restrictions on them. Now is that scamming foreigners/unsuspecting market? Limited edition tickets with restrictions sold only to Japanese doesn't sound too fair, but I would hardly call it scamming. Now if they implemented that across the board, charging foreigners more regardless of flight schedule and etc., then yeah.

the4th2001

Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 130
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject:

PG_Tips wrote:

the4th2001 wrote:

PG_Tips wrote:

No, not paranoid at all. Especially when you consider the fact you've omitted a pretty key part of my original post -

PG_Tips wrote:

Or... I could have been unlucky dealing with some unscrupulous agents needing to hit their monthly targets.

I'm guessing you either left that out because it already address the previous comment or were too knee-jerk to read that far.

No.1 and H.I.S are equally crap. Even Japanese people seek alternatives.

But, at least I know now not to go to you for ideas on 'fun' things to do.

Bad leg, can't knee-jerk. Um, yeah,

Quote:

Or... I could have been unlucky dealing with some unscrupulous agents needing to hit their monthly targets.

came across as fairly sarcastic and nasty considering some the language you opted to go with in that post, so I left it out. If it makes you feel better, I'll edit that back in.

I never said that H.I.S. is fantastic, and I'm sure that there are those Japanese that would prefer to go with JCB Travel or other agencies, but it's relatively cheap, painless, and they offer decent tour packages. Back in uni, most kids including myself used H.I.S. for our international travels.

PG_Tips

Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Posts: 20
Location: TYO

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject:

the4th2001 wrote:

Bad leg, can't knee-jerk. Um, yeah,

Shame.

the4th2001 wrote:

...came across as fairly sarcastic and nasty considering some the language you opted to go with in that post, so I left it out. If it makes you feel better, I'll edit that back in.

Don't you think you might be a bit prone to hyperbole? First I was paranoid, now I'm nasty and sarcastic? All because I threw an idea on to the forum that others have agreed with but you didn't. Should I shriek 'corporate shill' in retaliation? No.

the4th2001 wrote:

I never said that H.I.S. is fantastic, and I'm sure that there are those Japanese that would prefer to go with JCB Travel or other agencies, but it's relatively cheap, painless, and they offer decent tour packages. Back in uni, most kids including myself used H.I.S. for our international travels.

Really? Well I've asked H.I.S for quotes and they've always come back more expensive than other places. Sometimes ludicrously so. Therefore, for me at least, your point carried little weight. Sorry.

I hope I've managed to articulate that without sounding too nasty.

Last edited by PG_Tips on Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:57 pm; edited 2 times in total

taikibansei

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject:

the4th2001 wrote:

Really though, what scams are you talking about? The only thing I can think of is a few years back when H.I.S. offered Japanese nationals cheaper tickets for select flights at select times. Yasuku something or another. The tickets had all sorts of restrictions on them. Now is that scamming foreigners/unsuspecting market? Limited edition tickets with restrictions sold only to Japanese doesn't sound too fair, but I would hardly call it scamming. Now if they implemented that across the board, charging foreigners more regardless of flight schedule and etc., then yeah.

They're talking about the scams mentioned here, among other places:

http://www.debito.org/HISpricing.html

These were not just for a few "select flight" tickets either--until 2007 or so, HIS had a two-tiered pricing system for its tickets...only the pricing for foreigners was never made public. You'd see these wonderful prices advertised, be told when you called (assuming you spoke Japanese) that they were available at that price, but then when you tried to purchase them, the price would suddenly jump 1-2 man...usually right after your nationality was revealed. It happened to me also--i.e., some years back, I called H.I.S., speaking in Japanese, and got a price quote, only to be told after giving my (foreign) name that the price originally quoted was no longer available (no reason given...). The worst thing was that I knew somebody working at another H.I.S. office (different city...) at the time--even she couldn't get me tickets at the Japanese price. (She ended up quitting H.I.S. at least partly because of this, taking a job at another company.) I took my business elsewhere....

H.I.S. has apparently stopped the above practice. I still won't go back, though.

the4th2001

Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 130
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:13 am Post subject:

PG_Tips wrote:

the4th2001 wrote:

Bad leg, can't knee-jerk. Um, yeah,

Shame.

the4th2001 wrote:

...came across as fairly sarcastic and nasty considering some the language you opted to go with in that post, so I left it out. If it makes you feel better, I'll edit that back in.

Don't you think you might be a bit probe to hyperbole. First I was paranoid, now I'm nasty and sarcastic? All because I threw an idea on to the forum that others have agreed with but you didn't. Should I shriek 'corporate shill' in retaliation? No.

the4th2001 wrote:

Rather than being prone to hyperbole, I like to think that I call things the way I see them. It's rather annoying to listen to some foreigners play the race card because of some fantasiful feeling of entitlement.

They ripped me off 'casue, I'm (fill in color here).
They're exploited unsuspecting markets 'cause they can.
An unscrupulous agent needed to hit their monthly targets . . . and they are targeting me 'cause I'm a gaijin (at least that's how your post came across).

Yeah it gets old, seems paranoid, and it's somewhat pathetic.

But again, they are relatively cheap. You have your experiences, I have mine . . . which include numerous over seas flights during college and several business trips a year for the past 3~4 years. So from my perspective, your point carried little weight.

I'm hardly trying to convert you. Think what you will.

the4th2001

Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 130
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:23 am Post subject:

taikibansei wrote:

the4th2001 wrote:

That's what I was referring to. I always found it interesting that with all Dabito did (the signs and what have you), it really didn't make waves in the Japanese media. I think the only paper that reported on it was the Japan Times, and the author seems to be a friend of his. Anyway though, I'm not sure what type of tickets you tried to buy and I'm not downplaying or discounting what you went through, but even the materials provided in your link sway towards the idea that only some and very specific discount tickets were offered to Japanese at lower prices. An H.I.S. employee did a decent job explaining the situation and that can be found at http://www.baitohell.com/his/voice20.mp3 (link lifted from your link).

PG_Tips

Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Posts: 20
Location: TYO

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:31 am Post subject:

the4th2001 wrote:

Fantasiful?

Fantasiful?

I wasn't playing the race card, I just happen to think their deals are crap and wondered aloud why. You seem to be focusing in on that as a way to show how in-country you may be. Or maybe you're Japanese. I don't know/care. Trust me, I have been in this country long enough not to let it ruin my day and I've the language skills and know-how in place to find a better deal. They have in the past offered packages exclusively to Japanese people, and regardless of the 'limitations' those packages had, it's pretty disgusting. That said, it makes no bones to me because they've never had my money.

the4th2001 wrote:

They ripped me off 'casue, I'm (fill in color here).

They've never ripped me off, 'cause I aint used 'em.

the4th2001 wrote:

They're exploited unsuspecting markets 'cause they can.

Possibly, I wouldn't know. It was a hypothesis based on some evidence.

the4th2001 wrote:

An unscrupulous agent needed to hit their monthly targets . . . and they are targeting me 'cause I'm a gaijin (at least that's how your post came across).

You're very naive if you think that doesn't happen. I remember a friend of mind telling me he used to help Japanese people find Harrods department store from the closest tube station and charge them 25 pounds for the priviledge. They paid. No questions.

the4th2001 wrote:

Yeah it gets old, seems paranoid, and it's somewhat pathetic.

In your eyes perhaps, but you've aptly displayed a dire need for glasses. Not to mention a dictionary. And no, I'm not being fantasiful.

the4th2001 wrote:

But again, they are relatively cheap. You have your experiences, I have mine . . . which include numerous over seas flights during college and several business trips a year for the past 3~4 years. So from my perspective, your point carried little weight.

And?

the4th2001 wrote:

I'm hardly trying to convert you. Think what you will.

That's about the only good call you've made so far.

the4th2001

Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 130
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:58 am Post subject:

PG_Tips wrote:

the4th2001 wrote:

Fantasiful?

Fantasiful?

Yeah, I thought that came out wrong. Thanks for pointing that out. Fanciful. Heh, my English gets worse the longer that I'm here.

Quote:

You seem to be focusing in on that as a way to show how in-country you may be. Or maybe you're Japanese.

Hardly.

Quote:

Trust me, I have been in this country long enough not to let it ruin my day and I've the language skills and know-how in place to find a better deal.

Kudos to you . .?

PG_Tips wrote:

Quote:

the4th2001 wrote:
But again, they are relatively cheap. You have your experiences, I have mine . . . which include numerous over seas flights during college and several business trips a year for the past 3~4 years. So from my perspective, your point carried little weight.

And?

Same can be asked about what your wrote.

PG_Tips wrote:

Really? Well I've asked H.I.S for quotes and they've always come back more expensive than other places. Sometimes ludicrously so. Therefore, for me at least, your point carried little weight. Sorry.

PG_Tips

Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Posts: 20
Location: TYO

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject:

the4th2001 wrote:

Yeah, I thought that came out wrong. Thanks for pointing that out. Fanciful. Heh, my English gets worse the longer that I'm here.

Yeah, a typo is one thing, but making up a word is pretty damn funny.

Quote:

Hardly.

My bad. Still, you seem to have tried using me to put down self-important gaijin who think those Japanese are out to screw them. My contention is that it DOES happen, albeit sparingly. Much like in ANY other country.

Quote:

Kudos to you . .?

Not really, anyone in this place who can't figure out how to get a half decent deal for themselves after 10 years deserves to scammed. Threads like this should always be taken with a pinch of salt, but atleast it inspires an idea of caveat emptor in people who mightn't think to otherwise.

PG_Tips wrote:

Same can be asked about what your wrote.

The difference being, I hadn't unfairly judged you on your previous posts for the message you had put out here. Or taken one part of it and used it to label you in a particular way because it suited a reverse stereotype that is every bit as dull as the one you are trying to mistakenly eschew through me. Although, the effort you go to in excusing everything H.I.S does is, in my opinion, a bit questionable. Now, if I think you carry little weight, and you the same of me (in a sad, rather wounded way), and we've put your attempts at sounding like the protector of all things H.I.S to bed, there's little need to keep this going. Bearing in mind, I've been responding to you quoting me, your point is moot.

taikibansei

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:25 pm Post subject:

the4th2001 wrote:

An H.I.S. employee did a decent job explaining the situation and that can be found at http://www.baitohell.com/his/voice20.mp3 (link lifted from your link).

There is no "explanation," at least not according to the usual definition of the term. From about 18:23 on, when asked by a Japanese woman about the discriminatory pricing policy, an H.I.S. employee, nervously, merely repeats over and over again only that "there are various rules" (色々ルールがあるんですけど) and that "the rules are more strict" (ルールがより厳しくなった) because of the cheap price. The Japanese woman taping the discussion asks repeatedly for clarification of said rules, including the reasoning behind them. The H.I.S. employee can only repeat again and again (and again) in response that it is because the tickets are extremely cheap and limited in number--i.e., no real explanation as to why only Japanese nationals can purchase them. Interestingly enough, the employee also makes the point (e.g., at about the 22-minute mark) that it is H.I.S. itself, and not the airlines, which decided to have two-tiered pricing. The H.I.S. employee also defends the policy by saying that Korean travel agents give better deals to Koreans, etc. (around the 20-minute mark)! Finally, when the Japanese woman says that she can't understand and asks for additional explanation of the reasoning behind the rules and requirements (about the 23-minute mark), the H.I.S. employee responds that it's because you have to order the tickets two weeks before departure (ご出発の２週間前までのお申し込み), and because the rule is that the tickets are only for Japanese (日本国籍のみの販売になってしまう)--i.e., yet again answering a question about why there is such a rule with "because there is such a rule."

the4th2001 wrote:

Anyway though, I'm not sure what type of tickets you tried to buy and I'm not downplaying or discounting what you went through, but even the materials provided in your link sway towards the idea that only some and very specific discount tickets were offered to Japanese at lower prices.

Right...I wanted discount tickets--i.e., the tickets they were advertising, and that the Japanese people around me were buying. Bottom line: if you, a non Japanese, bought tickets through H.I.S. before 2007, you paid more because of your nationality--discount tickets being unavailable to you (or, to put it more kindly, available...but at more expensive prices). You appear fine with paying more than others because of your nationality, to even be proud of being ripped off--which is cool. I, on the other hand, went to another company, one of many which didn't discriminate, from where I could buy tickets for the same price as Japanese were buying them at H.I.S. To each his own, I guess!

the4th2001 wrote:

I always found it interesting that with all Dabito did (the signs and what have you), it really didn't make waves in the Japanese media. I think the only paper that reported on it was the Japan Times, and the author seems to be a friend of his.

If I remember correctly, it was reported in several (e.g., Mainichi) Japanese papers back in the day (2006)--though limited coverage, true. Of course, this says more about Japan/Japanese newspapers than anything else.

the4th2001

Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 130
Location: Tokyo

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject:

PG_Tips wrote:

the4th2001 wrote:

Yeah, I thought that came out wrong. Thanks for pointing that out. Fanciful. Heh, my English gets worse the longer that I'm here.

Yeah, a typo is one thing, but making up a word is pretty damn funny.

I wish I could blame it on a typo, but unfortunately can't. Yeah, definitely pulled a Palin.

PG_Tips wrote:

Now, if I think you carry little weight, and you the same of me (in a sad, rather wounded way), and we've put your attempts at sounding like the protector of all things H.I.S to bed, there's little need to keep this going. Bearing in mind, I've been responding to you quoting me, your point is moot.

Fair enough. Really though, I tend to defend most companies, not just H.I.S. Probably a bad habit of mine.

David W

Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject:

Taikibansei, my experience with HIS was similar to yours. Unfortunately if someone wants to drink the Kool-Aid what can you do? As for dealing with the airline directly, well it depends on the airline. JAL internationally always shows higher prices on-line than ANA does. Cathay is better for an on-line deal than Singapore Airlines and so on. But consistent among all carriers is that you can get to see the final price without having to give them any of your details. Plus I don't need to deal with an actual human until I go to the airport. That's worth it to me. Ymmv.

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