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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| jibbs wrote: |
Your city must be expensive there GWoW. I got back to China from Canada (around Halifax) a month ago. I'm in Suzhou, surely not the cheapest city.
Chicken at least, 10 to maybe 15 yuan for two or maybe three good sized bresses.
In Canada that cost like 7 bucks. |
Yea, it is expensive here. But you are right on chicken.
You're right about bressts (can't believe that is beeped out!); they are overpriced in Canada and underpriced in China. But that's all about supply and demand. Chinese tend to go for dark meat whereas we value the white meat. But even at Frugalvillage some places around Canada are selling brests for less than 3 bucks a pound.
I guess I'm thinking 'on the whole'... I just found a pile of groceries in Nova Scotia a lot cheaper than where I am.
Atlantic Superstore:
$1.99
white potatoes
10 lb bag
product of Atlantic Canada
Canada No. 1 Grade. (pretty good deal, I'd say!)
I found whole smoked hams for $1.99 a lb., turkey drumsticks at $1.49 a lb. and also chicken thighs at $1.99. Pure 100% apple juice at 99 cents a litre is just not possible in China anymore like it is back home.
Check out Farmboy flyers, too.
Look, when I first came to China, everything was so cheap. But now, with inflation (I don't buy the official rate China gives us) and with salaries not going up all that much.... I'm reconsidering China and may go back home when my contract is done. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You're right about bressts (can't believe that is beeped out!); they are overpriced in Canada and underpriced in China. |
I've heard they're smaller in China. Do you find that to be true? |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| The Ever-changing Cleric wrote: |
Great wall of whiner, I think you're the one that has some explaining to do. |
Absolutely, I'll even provide sources for my information.
I'm looking at an on-line Canadian grocery flyer right now. |
Provide the source then. Here's the source for my previous price list:
Independent Grocer
Loblaws Meat Prices - Loblaws/President's Choice very often has some of the lowest food prices going and nothing on here is even close to what you claim. Note the price of lean ground beef - $13.21/kg (RMB88/kg).
Sobey's - You can sometimes get ground beef cheaper but those are sale prices that last only a day or two. Right now Sobey's has a weekly special with ground beef at $4.39/kg (RMB29). Still more than your quoted price.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| 2. Salaries in China have not kept up with inflation |
And you think the situation in Canada is any different?
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| I found whole smoked hams for $1.99 a lb., turkey drumsticks at $1.49 a lb. and also chicken thighs at $1.99. Pure 100% apple juice at 99 cents a litre is just not possible in China anymore like it is back home. |
Listing some of these prices is pointless. These products are either not available in China, or relatively few people consume them, making them more expensive.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Yes, if you eat rice and noodles every day, food will be cheaper. |
this is a statement a few posters on this forum use to berate newbies contemplating taking a salary they think is too low because they fear these newbies are going to lower salaries nationwide, which is completely ridiculous and simplistic. Eating cheaper does not mean eating worse.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Next time anyone boss hiring foreigners tries to tell you 'how cheap' China is when you are discussing your salary or a raise, remember this post. |
Another long standing myth - In nearly 8 years here I've never had an employer use that line trying to sell me a job. Here's a tip: Compare prices when shopping, use your head a little (shop smarter), and you can eat well and cheaper here. That rule applies everywhere. |
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JayCee86
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:52 am Post subject: |
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With my extra work I regularly save over 15,000 RMB a month. The reason that this is possible is that the cost of living in China is definitely lower than back home in the UK.
Yes that includes food whatever GWoW says about his cheap Canadian meat. Unless you're living off imported food China will always be cheaper than the west.
Allow me to throw some numbers into the mix:
China - Can of Coke Zero 1.8RMB (Local Supermarket)
UK - Can of Coke Zero 5.7RMB (Sainsbury's)
That's over 3 times as much.
China - Small bottle of Tsingtao 2-3 RMB
UK - Small Bottle of Tsingtao 11.4 RMB (Wing Fat Supermarket in Chinatown)
That's over 5 times as much
However, it is not only food & drink - clothing, transport, utilities, gym membership, OTC medicines, and biggest of all, accommodation are all cheaper.
Overall a salary of X RMB will always go further in China than in the UK and I'd assume for any other western country unless you want to live an entirely western existence in China. |
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JordanX
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| JayCee86 wrote: |
| Unless you're living off imported food China will always be cheaper than the west. |
Given the infinitely better food safety laws in the west, that might be better in the long run -- at least if you're American and have to pay for your own health care. |
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LanGuTou
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Shandong
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| JordanX wrote: |
| JayCee86 wrote: |
| Unless you're living off imported food China will always be cheaper than the west. |
Given the infinitely better food safety laws in the west, that might be better in the long run -- at least if you're American and have to pay for your own health care. |
Infinitely better food safety laws or infinitely better enforcement?
There is a distinct difference.
There is nothing wrong with the laws but a whole lot wrong with the interpretation and enactment. I have never heard of the death penalty being applied in the west for any food safety violation! |
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jibbs
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 452
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| jibbs wrote: |
Your city must be expensive there GWoW. I got back to China from Canada (around Halifax) a month ago. I'm in Suzhou, surely not the cheapest city.
Chicken at least, 10 to maybe 15 yuan for two or maybe three good sized bresses.
In Canada that cost like 7 bucks. |
Yea, it is expensive here. But you are right on chicken.
You're right about bressts (can't believe that is beeped out!); they are overpriced in Canada and underpriced in China. But that's all about supply and demand. Chinese tend to go for dark meat whereas we value the white meat. But even at Frugalvillage some places around Canada are selling brests for less than 3 bucks a pound.
I guess I'm thinking 'on the whole'... I just found a pile of groceries in Nova Scotia a lot cheaper than where I am.
Atlantic Superstore:
$1.99
white potatoes
10 lb bag
product of Atlantic Canada
Canada No. 1 Grade. (pretty good deal, I'd say!)
I found whole smoked hams for $1.99 a lb., turkey drumsticks at $1.49 a lb. and also chicken thighs at $1.99. Pure 100% apple juice at 99 cents a litre is just not possible in China anymore like it is back home.
Check out Farmboy flyers, too.
Look, when I first came to China, everything was so cheap. But now, with inflation (I don't buy the official rate China gives us) and with salaries not going up all that much.... I'm reconsidering China and may go back home when my contract is done. |
Yeah not as cheap here as some say. Some employers would have ya believe 6000 RMB is a high salary. Ridiculous. One guy once was so bold to say it was like $6000 back in Canada or USA> haha. Spuds may be cheaper back in Canada, forgot about one, but then who spend more than a few bucks a month on em anyway.
Still, I found Canada quite expensive with all the bills, tipping, going out for meals, taxis etc. Overall I'd still say China is quite a lot cheaper if ya got a good thing going, that is, and are not too "spendy"...
My brother and I used to shop at the Superstore. Good selection and not that expensive overall. It's the overall cost of living that matters though.
I heard once about in some parts of rural China, farmers buy/sell a chicken for about 2 mao ! Five chickens for one yuan? Not sure where I heard this. I have heard and can believe though, that in some rural places many people really do live on a few kuai or less than a dollar, a day.
Still curious how the poster "xigua" manages on 500 or less yuan a month though. |
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sistercream
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 497
Location: Pearl River Delta
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| 3rd tier cities are not really cheaper but one may spend less money due to a lack of things to do. Less money spent on western clothes, books, and drinking. |
I'll concede this point, JZer - and I'm sure it's changing, but there are still plenty of smaller cities where you "have to" buy fresh produce in the street markets because it's not stocked in the local "supermarkets", which also saves money (at the expense of convenience). And lower rents and wages mean that eating out is significantly cheaper. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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The real issue has almost nothing to do with the price of potatoes or beef or whatever. China is cheaper than the west because you aren't buying the same products and services. Specifically, a lot of FTs have housing provided: big savings. Very few FTs drive cars: more big savings. Hardly any have truly decent health insurance: for Americans, more savings.
In the case that you started doing the same things in China that people are doing in the west, China would not be cheap at all. That is to say, if you drove a car, maintained decent health insurance, put kids in school, lived in quarters suitable for a family, saved for retirement, etc.
EFL in China allows people to avoid the trappings of western adulthood, and that's what makes it cheap. |
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Dr. Dow
Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe so, Zero, but, what will those who came here in their 30's or even younger, and stay until they are 60 or so do when China kicks them out?
Go home without much in the bank, no insurance or even a smidgeon of "social benefits" (Social Security in the USA)? |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Dow wrote: |
Maybe so, Zero, but, what will those who came here in their 30's or even younger, and stay until they are 60 or so do when China kicks them out?
Go home without much in the bank, no insurance or even a smidgeon of "social benefits" (Social Security in the USA)? |
That is the million dollar question. |
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creztor
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| You are assuming there will be social security in the future? The majority of people in the West don't save, and they aren't any better off than someone in China who isn't saving. Security is a myth. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| If you want to stay in China for the truly long haul, you need to think up something besides teaching English for 6k/month. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: |
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@The Ever-changing Cleric
1. Ground beef: RMB29/kg looks almost the same as it is here in Panjin, if we are talking extra lean. Maybe I'm just in an expensive city? At present, 16 yuan a jin (a pound) for usual everyday beef (not lean) is the cheapest I can find around here. That's 32RMB/kg. More expensive than the RMB29 you quoted.
2. Wages: In my home province of BC, the minimum wage was 6 bucks in 2001. Now it's up to $10.25. That's over 10,000RMB a month for full-time work. I'm looking at old ads for 2001 in China offering about the same now as then. Wages, at least in BC, have gone up. And mentioning housing is a moot point; most foreigners are unaware that most jobs in China for the people in China give housing free to workers who need housing (dorms, but still housing).
3. Turkey, chicken thighs, apple juice: apart from the turkey (which I can get here in Panjin), how is chicken and apple juice pointless? I eat chicken and I drink apple juice.
4. On the whole, China is becoming more expensive, inflation compared to salary is ridiculous, and many ordinary everyday consumables are cheaper in Canada than in China. I stand by that, although the supermarket you showed in Canada is extremely expensive and I would never shop in there. My flyers had much better deals.  |
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The Ever-changing Cleric
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1523
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| 1. Ground beef: RMB29/kg looks almost the same as it is here in Panjin, if we are talking extra lean. Maybe I'm just in an expensive city? At present, 16 yuan a jin (a pound) for usual everyday beef (not lean) is the cheapest I can find around here. That's 32RMB/kg. More expensive than the RMB29 you quoted. |
Did you check the link to that flyer I posted? The RMB29 price I quoted was a two day sale price that has come and gone. Of course a sale price for an item at a Canadian grocery store could be lower than the regular price of a similar item in China. But sale prices last a day or two before they go back up again.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| 3. Turkey, chicken thighs, apple juice: apart from the turkey (which I can get here in Panjin), how is chicken and apple juice pointless? I eat chicken and I drink apple juice. |
i pointed out that listing things like smoked hams, turkey and fruit juice is less relevant because these products aren't available throughout china and/or fewer people consume them, which leads to a slightly higher price due to lower demand. Show me a basket of goods that are considered staples and I'll show you lower prices in China compared to Canada every time.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| 4. the supermarket you showed in Canada is extremely expensive and I would never shop in there. |
No it's not extremely expensive, its simply the norm in most of the country.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| My flyers had much better deals. |
Please post the link to that flyer, I'd like to see these deals.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| 2. Wages: In my home province of BC, the minimum wage was 6 bucks in 2001. Now it's up to $10.25. That's over 10,000RMB a month for full-time work. I'm looking at old ads for 2001 in China offering about the same now as then. Wages, at least in BC, have gone up. And mentioning housing is a moot point; most foreigners are unaware that most jobs in China for the people in China give housing free to workers who need housing (dorms, but still housing). |
If you're bringing up wages then housing is anything but a moot point. Free housing for ESL teachers (those at universities and colleges at least) is the equivalent of another RMB2000-3000 in your monthly salary.
Further to the above, how well is the average wal mart employee in BC living while earning minimum wage? 40 hour weeks, probably shared apartment or living at home, minimum holidays, no savings. That makes working in china for 5000/mo with a free flat and lots of time off look all the better.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| 4. On the whole, China is becoming more expensive, inflation compared to salary is ridiculous, |
This is not limited to China. Everyone's facing these problems.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Maybe I'm just in an expensive city? |
That seems to be the case.
I have nothing more to add. |
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