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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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 Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| simon_porter00 wrote: |
Further to this, Sharter is (I'm guessing from the details he posted above), part of the old school brigade that came over in the glory years of the 90's when native speakers could earn whatever they wanted, live like kings and have Poland at their feet because they are a "native speaker".
Even though the ESL world has moved on, some attitudes have not. We call this "native speaker syndrome". Go to a native speaker haunt in any town/city and you'll see 40-60year old men moaning about the good ol' times about how they were earning a gazillion zł per hour and nowadays Poland sucks because it's soo damned expensive. |
Oh yes. Without a shadow of a doubt, he's one of those people. I'm still wondering where this mythical 12zl beer is in Poznan - the only places I can think of with such crazy prices are not...shall we say, the domain of the average teacher. Heck, I went to some decent new club a couple of weeks ago and only paid 9zl for a beer - so he's clearly talking rubbish, or he's hanging out in strip bars.
But while all this talk of "Poland is soooo expensive nowadays" sounds good, I'm not so convinced that it was ever so cheap. Perhaps for ordinary things, but by all accounts - imported goods got a lot cheaper after 2004. I'm doing some pretty serious research into the Polish borderlands - and one story that keeps cropping up is that Poles were buying a lot of stuff in Germany and reclaiming the VAT - and the Polish border guards couldn't have cared less about what was imported. |
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Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 2:17 am Post subject: |
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Mr.Sharter is partly right.I remember paying 10zl for a pint of Tyskie in the old town of Poznan back in 2004-2005.Heineken was definitely going for 12zl in some pubs and that was 6 years ago.
I frequented the Stajenka pub which was serving up swill for 5zl, but you had to put up with the sketchy patrons and constant bar fights and scuffles in that seedy joint.
Carving out any kind of future in Poland on an ESLers salary is becoming increasingly difficult.
I spent 7 relatively happy years in Poland, but my advice for any newcomers is to go for a year or two max,enjoy the amazing sights,indulge in the birds and drink and go back home and get on with your life. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Jack Walker wrote: |
Mr.Sharter is partly right.I remember paying 10zl for a pint of Tyskie in the old town of Poznan back in 2004-2005.Heineken was definitely going for 12zl in some pubs and that was 6 years ago.
I frequented the Stajenka pub which was serving up swill for 5zl, but you had to put up with the sketchy patrons and constant bar fights and scuffles in that seedy joint.
Carving out any kind of future in Poland on an ESLers salary is becoming increasingly difficult. |
But who on earth would drink Heineken in Poland? It's produced in Poland and has that awful Polish bitter aftertaste to it - just like Pilsner Urquell and the other "imported" brands that are actually produced in Poland.
I was in the centre yesterday, and beer is ranging from as cheap as 4.50zl just off the Rynek through to 9zl in the Rynek, excluding one or two restaurants where most people wouldn't be drinking beer anyway.
As for carving out a future in Poland - I can give you one example of a job offer. 24 full hours a week, 6000zl gross salary - or about 5250zl after tax. Average wage in the city is about 4000zl or so - and if you can't survive on 5250zl a month, something is really wrong.
It's worth pointing out though, that there's a huge disparity between first year ESL salaries and what you can get after a couple of years here. |
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maniak
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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If anything I see prices going down down down... real estate, goods, luxury goods, cars, services... you name it. Across the board Im finding a lot of things 10-25% cheaper than last year.
in Wroclaw a lot of new restaurants and bars opened up, including a slew of modern day "milk bars" where 10zl gets you a small meal plus a glass of decent red wine. 15zl gets you a good meal in most places, so much so I have leftovers that I take home. The time spent going food shopping, the prices, cooking, and then cleaning... Id rather eat out.
As for the beer, its atrocious, there are a few slim pickings from some of the local breweries like Ciechan but a few light years behind whats produced in the US. |
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Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| delphian-domine wrote: |
| Jack Walker wrote: |
Mr.Sharter is partly right.I remember paying 10zl for a pint of Tyskie in the old town of Poznan back in 2004-2005.Heineken was definitely going for 12zl in some pubs and that was 6 years ago.
I frequented the Stajenka pub which was serving up swill for 5zl, but you had to put up with the sketchy patrons and constant bar fights and scuffles in that seedy joint.
Carving out any kind of future in Poland on an ESLers salary is becoming increasingly difficult. |
But who on earth would drink Heineken in Poland? It's produced in Poland and has that awful Polish bitter aftertaste to it - just like Pilsner Urquell and the other "imported" brands that are actually produced in Poland.
I was in the centre yesterday, and beer is ranging from as cheap as 4.50zl just off the Rynek through to 9zl in the Rynek, excluding one or two restaurants where most people wouldn't be drinking beer anyway.
As for carving out a future in Poland - I can give you one example of a job offer. 24 full hours a week, 6000zl gross salary - or about 5250zl after tax. Average wage in the city is about 4000zl or so - and if you can't survive on 5250zl a month, something is really wrong.
It's worth pointing out though, that there's a huge disparity between first year ESL salaries and what you can get after a couple of years here. |
Can you give any more info about that job? Sounds pretty good.I'd never seen any offer like that during my time in Poland.
Yeah,Polish beer is pretty bad that's for sure.The stuff on tap is some of the worst I've ever consumed. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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jack walker wrote:
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| my advice for any newcomers is to go for a year or two max,enjoy the amazing sights,indulge in the birds and drink and go back home and get on with your life. |
that's pretty sound.
delphian-domine wrote:
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| But who on earth would drink Heineken in Poland? |
that was my staple beer when I lived there.
maniak wrote:
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| 10zl gets you a small meal plus a glass of decent red wine |
a small meal and a glass of wine.....for $3?! do we have a vomitting emoticon?
Jack Walker wrote:
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| Can you give any more info about that job? |
i second that. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Jack Walker wrote: |
| Can you give any more info about that job? Sounds pretty good.I'd never seen any offer like that during my time in Poland. |
That was from one language school here - I don't want to name names (I don't know anything about what they pay others) - but it's a school with a decent reputation in Poznan. There's not many of them - but I will say that it's independent and established for quite a long time.
But that's with being well established here and having a decent amount of references from many different companies behind me.
Worth pointing out though, that the "big name" schools are paying Polish teachers at least 50zl an hour these days, at least here. The same offer is only paying 62.50zl an hour - so while it's high, it's still not anything particularly amazing. And of course - I have my own doubts as to whether the school would continue to offer 24 hours a week later in the year.
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| Yeah,Polish beer is pretty bad that's for sure.The stuff on tap is some of the worst I've ever consumed. |
Tell me about it. I've more or less given up drinking anything mainstream here - it's just a one way trip to a bad, bad hangover. |
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greggie
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Worth pointing out though, that the "big name" schools are paying Polish teachers at least 50zl an hour these days, at least here. The same offer is only paying 62.50zl an hour - so while it's high, it's still not anything particularly amazing. And of course - I have my own doubts as to whether the school would continue to offer 24 hours a week later in the year. |
But if you check the new advert for IH Torun that runs the same payrate as IH Koszalin works out at 84 hours a month for 1600-1875pln, thats means in Koszalin its between 19,04pln to a maximum of 22,32pln, and after our last training weekend i found out in Koszalin they are contracted to 24 hours a week which means they only earn between 16,66pln and 19,53oln an hour!and IH i think is the biggest name school there. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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delphain-domine wrote:
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But that's with being well established here and having a decent amount of references from many different companies behind me.
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Right. And the problem with this is how many people are willing to stick it out that long in Poland until they achieve something like this. For some, Poland is doable for many years but for most, it's not.
delphian-domine wrote:
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| the "big name" schools are paying Polish teachers at least 50zl an hour these |
I gotta say, I got in with a school after a few years that paid me 50zl net per lesson and the school was very small. Reliable, had been in the business for many years, but small. It was a good setup and I wish I had found them earlier.
Regarding beer, I can still drink Tyskie. I don't love the stuff but it's drinkable. I always felt the same about Polish beer as I did with the mass produced American beers. Mostly crap but a couple of them are drinkable without scrunching your face after every sip. |
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Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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The really good jobs in Poland these days are few and far between.
There are a few sound organizations, but most of the language schools are drama filled institutions trying to squeeze every drop of blood out of the proverbial turnip. |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject: I'm in Poznan on holiday right now |
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Thanks for the digs about being old etc-on the money though as I'm 41. Atually as a Cambridge Examiner etc I'm hardly some sort of fly by night lesson winger. Old school yes-which means a hell of a lot of experience. I don't know any celebs either.
Look-you can live really cheaply here if you try, but the angle I'm coming from is as a parent. Life here on a TEFL wage as a parent just isn't possible if your wife stops working. Unlike the Poles, you won't have the family support etc.
It is my opinion that anything less than 3K is not doable.
Sure you can live on milk bar soup, Avanti pasta and kebabs-pretty studenty fare. The beer is actually now cheaper than it was.
I've met many old mates in the last few days and all of them are either leaving or getting out of EFL here. Nuff said.
I was already a qualified, experienced teacher when I came here in 95. The problem is that we got 5-6k a month back then when everything was cheap. |
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Master Shake
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1202
Location: Colorado, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: I'm in Poznan on holiday right now |
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| sharter wrote: |
| Thanks for the digs about being old etc-on the money though as I'm 41. Atually as a Cambridge Examiner etc I'm hardly some sort of fly by night lesson winger. Old school yes-which means a hell of a lot of experience. I don't know any celebs either. |
For what's it worth, if you stopped constantly bitching about how outrageously expensive everything was, you wouldn't sound so old. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
| Right. And the problem with this is how many people are willing to stick it out that long in Poland until they achieve something like this. For some, Poland is doable for many years but for most, it's not. |
You're absolutely right. It's worth pointing out in this thread that until you can work your way into a position where you can dictate terms - schools, on the whole, tend to be quite crap.
We won't even mention the "I have power and I'm going to use it just because I have it" tendancies. It's one good reason why I'm working freelance - to hell with all the politics.
| Quote: |
| I gotta say, I got in with a school after a few years that paid me 50zl net per lesson and the school was very small. Reliable, had been in the business for many years, but small. It was a good setup and I wish I had found them earlier. |
I think that's something worth pointing out - it can be very wise to take less money but much better conditions. I know a couple of guys who run a school - and they only pay around 40-45zl an hour. But they are as honest as it gets - if they promise you x amount of work, then you'll be paid for that amount of work - even if the school doesn't have it. They've been around for years, and they have very little turnover of staff.
But it's not run by Polish people 
[quote=sharter]Life here on a TEFL wage as a parent just isn't possible if your wife stops working.[/quote]
Uh, living in most countries isn't possible if your wife stops working. Just try doing that in London, New York or many other countries.
I'm still wondering why you think the average TEFL teacher should be drinking whisky in hotel bars. |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: erm |
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| Don't drink in hotel bars. Paid 12zl for an Okocim in the rynek last night though. Cheap night at 600zs. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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delphian-domine wrote:
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| Uh, living in most countries isn't possible if your wife stops working. |
Yes. At least if you want to live like a human being. The difference in Poland though is the general cost of living along with the general quality of living. If you compare Poland to a developed country, an "average" wage gets you a nice car and a good size apartment. In Poland, you're looking at either mommy and daddy's 70 meter flat or a shared flat hole in the wall with someone else.....and you're driving an old tin can to work on crummy roads......in shite weather.
It's just plain ole' frustrating to be a middle class westerner with a kid or two in Poland, even if your wife takes home a decent paycheck. For me, it was unimaginable......that's why I got out when I did.
delphian-domine wrote:
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| It's one good reason why I'm working freelance - to hell with all the politics. |
I wouldn't say you avoid politics but it's a hell of a lot better than being at the mercy of some random Grzegorz or Magda. |
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