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where should a semi-experienced female teacher go?
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Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Middle East Forum

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spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject:

Quote:

(since when was a teaching certificate in the States where I studied for 4 years and did 1 year of student teaching underqualified

The thing that makes you 'underqualified' for most of the good jobs is that you want to essentically change fields. Language teaching is a field on its own, which significant research over the past 50 years and more shows has poses challenges widely differing from teaching content in a student's L1. Everything from classroom management to student motivation to approaches and methods are widely different.

I, too, hold a BEd., and have worked with some teachers who crossed over from content fields. It's simply not the same job, however, and does in fact require further qualifications. A CELTA or equivalent (including supervised teaching practice with actual students) is a place to start.

Just so that you are aware, you wouldn't be considered for most ESL positions in North America (even low-paid ones) without at least the CELTA. Ditto Europe (though with a US passport, most of Europe's off-limits for you anyway). Entry-level jobs in both regions require training specific to language teaching.

Asia is such an 'easy' job market for teachers that experience only there can easily give people a somewhat distorted view of qualifications required, when they want to consider other regions.

Sheikh N Bake

Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 1307
Location: Dis ting of ours

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject:

Oh, never mind--Middle East! Big bucks for everybody! All you need is a "whatever" online certificate! Come on down to the Price is Right!

rockinrobin714

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 15
Location: Michigan

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject:

Sheikh N Bake wrote:

Oh, never mind--Middle East! Big bucks for everybody! All you need is a "whatever" online certificate! Come on down to the Price is Right!

Seriously? I'm just (MOD edit) asking. In Taiwan, and much of Asia, in some circumstances, you could be as unqualified as only having a (non-education) bachelors degree. This is why I posted the question to see what qualifications were needed in the Middle East to see how they differed from Taiwan. It's not as if I flew down there and demanded a job.

Is this how you treat new people who ask questions? Please just stop, your advice is not appreciated if you are so negative.

MOD edit for language...

johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject:

Dear rockinrobin714, One "encouraging" post and all the rest (excluding yours, of course) "not very encouraging." "Please just stop, your advice is not appreciated if you are so negative." But when the reality IS negative, would you rather have fantasy? Regards, John

rockinrobin714

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 15
Location: Michigan

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject:

[quote="spiral78"]

Quote:

The thing that makes you 'underqualified' for most of the good jobs is that you want to essentically change fields.

It's true. Are there many people who are teaching in the Middle East who are settled down for the long haul? That's the thing... I don't know where I want to live for the rest of my life, and probably wouldn't live in another country unless it's Spanish speaking (and well-paid teaching positions are limited in Latin America / Spain). Most ads I see posted call for 1 or 2 year contracts though so I would assume they understand many people aren't going to stay for a long time?

The company I work for now has very few people who stay a long time, mostly because a lot of people just show up for a gap-year type adventure in Taiwan and when they find out teaching is actually not that easy they fly back home very quickly. I knew what I was getting into before coming here but still can't imagine staying in Taiwan (or any other place) for more than 2 years or so...

rockinrobin714

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 15
Location: Michigan

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject:

johnslat wrote:

Dear rockinrobin714,

One "encouraging" post and all the rest (excluding yours, of course) "not very encouraging."

"Please just stop, your advice is not appreciated if you are so negative."

But when the reality IS negative, would you rather have fantasy?

Regards,
John

True. I don't want to show up waving my bachelors degree yelling "Hire me! The internets told me this was so easy!"

I'd just appreciate some tact in being let down nicely I suppose Smile

johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject:

Dear rockinrobin714, I think many of the posters were pretty tactful; however, I'm afraid tact is neither SnB's nor scot47's strongest point. Regards, John

spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Are there many people who are teaching in the Middle East who are settled down for the long haul? That's the thing... I don't know where I want to live for the rest of my life, and probably wouldn't live in another country unless it's Spanish speaking (and well-paid teaching positions are limited in Latin America / Spain). Most ads I see posted call for 1 or 2 year contracts though so I would assume they understand many people aren't going to stay for a long time?

Many of us regulars are indeed long-termers. For me, not in the Middle East, but I've been a career EFL/ESL teacher for over 14 years now (MA TESL/TEFL holder) and have lived outside my own country for 15 years total (no plans to return ever). The reason I occasionally post here is that I've worked with students from the ME for the past ten years, and have done projects for both the Saudi government and for the Saudi association of technical universities (GOTEVOT). I sometimes have questions for the ME long-termers and sometimes offer a bit of input for others teaching students from the ME.

Yes, I know long-term teachers in Spain and in Latin America. The jobs you see advertised are entry-level.

Basically, you don't get career-level jobs in ESL/EFL without
1. related qualifications
2. a demonstrated commitment to a country/region, usually including a functional knowledge of the local language, local reputation and contacts - all meaning that they aren't often found from abroad (again, unlike Asia).

The Middle East is a bit of an exception because most Westerners don't want to live long-term there. As pointed out earlier, ME employers can afford to pay well and are (in most cases) quite demanding regarding acceptable qualifications and experience. This is also very often true in the (long-term) teaching projects they fund for their students abroad. At the international university where I am, teachers without specific training in language teaching are not accepted on the Saudi pre-med English language courses, and those with less than a related MA are regularly monitored by better-qualified teachers.

veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject:

rockinrobin714 wrote:

There are also many places (normally the top employers) who have 3 year contracts. The Middle East is very different from the rest of the ESL/EFL world. This was my second career and I taught at university level, in four different countries, over 16 years, and most of the teachers that I taught with had been there much longer than me. They were nearly all professionals with MAs or working on one, and they were in for the long haul. Teachers that I worked with back in the 80s are still there teaching.

I would estimate that the average is 2-4 contracts (ie 2-12 years) with some of them teaching elsewhere in the middle of that span of years. (with the average lowering lately due to expanded hiring at low-level universities that are not requiring MAs and are just starting to raise required standards in countries like Oman and Saudi.) Many leave the ME and then come back for the perks that it offers. The average teacher in the ME is older and more likely to married with children than in Asia. In the ME, you do not have young graduates with limited or no credentials popping in to do a "gap" year, there are no employers who are interested in these non-teachers. It is expensive for employers to get work visas and the cost of living is too high to attract free-lancers.

The "negativity" that you have encountered here is a reflection of the fact that most of the regular posters here are professionals who have paid their dues and have the required bits of paper to qualify for the top jobs in the ME. There is a constant flow of new posters here - young Westerners fresh out of college with minimal or even zero credentials - who have heard that the streets of the ME are paved with gold and they think that they can just waltz in and pay off those damn education loans. Laughing

Now, one thing that you hadn't mentioned was that you have a US (state) teaching certificate. Just having a degree in education doesn't guarantee that one has this... I am a perfect example of that. There were no teaching jobs available in the US when I completed my degree, so I never bothered to activate a license. That qualifies you for the international schools, though again... the best of that group only hires teachers with significant experience. While lynnknows is more positive about your possibilities, her example doesn't really help you as she is older than you (sorry lynnknows... you're probably about halfway between rockin' and me Cool

) and arrived in the Middle East with a few years experience on her CV as I recall. And certainly after her first ME job, she had the local experience to qualify for the rest of the list that she gave.

Have you considered the job fairs in the US for certified/licensed teachers?

VS

lynnknows

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 153
Location: Here, there, everywhere

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:52 am Post subject:

LOL, Hey VS,....LOL I am 42. Yes, that is older than she is, but DANGGGGGGGGGGG. LOLOLOL Maybe once I get these kids out the house I can start to chill like u. I still have 6 yrs before I graduate my youngest. Trust me they will be LLLOOONNGGG years.

Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:02 am Post subject:

rockinrobin

Quote:

Agreed, a lot of these posts were very discouraging for me because I don't have the time or money to just drop everything and get a masters,

People are being discouraging for very good reason. Quite frankly, since you have no MA, no CELTA and no experience teaching academic English, you will be close to the bottom of the pile for high-paying Middle East employers. As others have said, the job market here is really very different from elsewhere in the world. Salaries and benefits are usually much better than just about anywhere else in the world, so employers can afford to be choosy, especially in the current economic climate.

That's not to say you have no chance of getting a job, but your chances of getting a decent job with a decent employer are very slim unless you upgrade your qualifications. In the past few years, there has been a rise in the number of (mostly Saudi) employers, usually working through recruiters advertising on this site. Many of these are not picky about teachers' qualifications, but the downside is that they are NOT good places to work in. At all. So if you're serious about coming here, get a CELTA at the very least. Even with that, however, you won't be a prime candidate for the better jobs, to put mildly. If that's being 'discouraging' that's simply the way it is.

veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:06 pm Post subject:

lynnknows wrote:

LOL, Hey VS,....LOL I am 42. Yes, that is older than she is, but DANGGGGGGGGGGG. LOLOLOL

I was spot on there... halfway. Cool

I was just guessing based on your children's ages that you had mentioned long ago. Sometimes we forget how hard it was to get a job when we needed to use large fonts and wide borders to have at least one page for those first CV/resumes.

It's a tough job market these days.

VS

BadBeagleBad

Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject:

Citizenkane wrote:

I don't know about a 'whatever certification' but you cannot get a CELTA online. This is because it involves several hours of observed teaching.

Isn�t there now an online CELTA where you do the majority of the work online and then just have to set up sessions to be observed and evaluated?

Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Isn�t there now an online CELTA where you do the majority of the work online and then just have to set up sessions to be observed and evaluated?

Seems so:

http://www.cambridgeesol.org/exams/exams-info/faqs/celta-course-online-faq.html#2

Although, given that Gulf employers often refuse to recognise online degrees, it's possible they might do the same with an online CELTA. Assuming they know such a thing exists - I didn't until your question prompted me to google it!

BadBeagleBad

Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject:

rockinrobin714 wrote:

I don't know where I want to live for the rest of my life, and probably wouldn't live in another country unless it's Spanish speaking (and well-paid teaching positions are limited in Latin America / Spain). .

True for the unqualified, which would be the majority of teachers in Latin American, sadly. Not at all true for trained teachers, whether certified to teach content in their home country,pay at International schools, or upper crust Bi-lingual schools can be quite good, or well-quailifed ESL teachers, you can work in a University, or move into administrative positions, writing curriculum, etc. But, yeah, with minimal qualifications you won�t make a lot of money.

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