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Silent Shadow
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 380
Location: A stones throw past the back of beyond
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 Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| GuestBob wrote: |
| Silent Shadow wrote: |
I find other things are needed, Bob.
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I see your point but there are lots of ways to cook an egg. I would never use creative writing with a class of University English majors because analytical skills and argument are the areas in which I think the kids are often really weak (as we both agree). That's where my time would go. Also, the florid nature of some of my kids' writing was beyond the pale and certainly not suitable for academic or professional use. I worked on simplifying things with them, again, moving away from the creative.
Regardless, the fact that we are even talking about extended writing exercises and research skills indicates that University teaching in China can, if you let it, be quite a bit of work. I don't know too many teachers who are really serious about academic essay writing as a means of assessment - so kudos to you Shadow. |
I think it's possible and useful to give university students a bit of "everything". I sometimes have two semesters with the same writing classes, but even with one semester, a fair bit of ground can be covered.
Last semester apart from poems, and a narrative, I gave instruction and exercises on a job resume, and an argument essay. In previous semesters, students have written compare/ contrast essays and one or two business letters. The problem with a comprehensive approach is that there is only a limited amount of time to practice each different type of paper. One thing I have found with Chinese students, though, is their desire for variety. I particularly needed this with my English double majors (English is their second major) as the classes were scheduled for Thursday/Friday evenings- a time when students would naturally prefer to relax.
Poetry exercises help Chinese students to be more expressive, and it gives them a chance to express their feelings, something that Chinese people are generally taught to suppress. With the pressures that young students face in modern day China I felt that my students were not just stimulated and excited about the exercise (the short story their poems was based on was about the topic of sacrificial love). It was full of beautiful and vivid metaphor and simile, and it triggered their imaginations and the exercise had a positive cathartic effect on them.
Now to, narrative writing. Chinese students are not very often encouraged to use their imagination and be creative, so using these skills was generally a refreshing and welcoming change for the students. They enjoyed the process, and I think this is an important element of education- learning being an eye-opener, a passage of exploration of themselves, their environment, and of what makes them tick/happy- an experience! (sorry, I'm having troube not sounding corny and cliched!).
I feel that all the above things are particularly important, considering that by and large Chinese students are worn out by too much rote memorization, and exams. The process and enjoyment of learning has for the most part been pushed out. Again, if you're enjoying something that involves thinking and a process, then you will acquire thinking skills. All the above being said, I think that there are certainly good reasons to assign creative writing activities to Chinese students.
I think the most important thing is variety. A mixture of creative, argumentative, and business writing, gives Chinese students a refreshing variety that captures their interest, while also giving them much needed all round skills.
Thanks for the stimulating exchange, Bob.
To the OP. I'd say the answer to your question is that it depends on how much desire you have for helping your students with their learning. It is as much work as you choose to put into it. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| roadwalker wrote: |
| The most frustrating for me have been writing classes due to plagiarism and lack of competency or interest on the part of the students. Chinese students are taught to pass exams, not compose a grammatical sentence, let alone paragraph. |
This also accurately describes Taiwanese and Japanese university students I've worked with. They do a lot of copying and pasting. I've also had a lot of students take something that they had either written in Chinese or stolen from a Chinese article and then run it through a translation website - essentially plagiarism also. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: |
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I like the comment about printing out the plagiarized articles and attaching them to the student's essay. I did that for the first time last fall semester.
It was funny to see the look of shock on the students' faces. Not shock because I caught them cheating, but they were shocked that I would accuse them of stealing text from the Internet. Total denial. Even with the proof sitting there right before their eyes! |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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cheating is interesting in that the students are not very good at it.
they copy word for word, making no effort to disguise the original.
at the midterm, one student took his notebook out during the
exam and began checking his answers. didn't attempt to hide it,
then sat there puzzled for ten minutes after i took his exam paper.
in five writing classes, i had six students turn in the same paper.
amazingly, they all had the same errors. copying each others
work i thought. ran a text string through the google, and i found
the source. as a joke, some engrish teacher in shanghai had
posted some of the crappy essays his students had turned in.
my students copied straight from his blog. one student claimed
she copied from the internet, not from another student, so
it's not cheating.
had about a dozen memorize essays that they would later
regurgitate on the exam. most were fairly obvious. i just
gave them a zero along with the website address where the
essay originated. |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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When teaching writing, the first lesson should be about plagiarism, followed by a test on the topic. Additional lessons will deal with attributions, reference works, quotes, academic honesty and including a bibliography and in-text citations. If you don't do this, don't complain about the students who copy. Not that this will prevent the practice, but at least the students can't plead ignorance.
A demonstration of string-search techniques may be helpful to show them how easy it is to catch them out.
Really, if the work is almost error free, chances are it's plagiarized.
RED |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Lobster wrote: |
Really, if the work is almost error free, chances are it's plagiarized.
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This is the rule, there is also the "lack of stock expressions" and "presence of original analysis". Having said that, I once verbally examined a student about an essay she had written because it was suspiciously excellent and I couldn't find any of it on line. She talked about the subject clearly and with good understanding, and so passed.
I had a few kids from that class who were really good - giving them an opportunity to really get to grips with something was one of the most rewarding teaching experiences I have had. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| igorG wrote: |
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| Are universities a lot of work? |
More than a decade ago and for just about the same salary with higher weekly teaching hours. |
I've increased my university pay by over 500 rmb per month per year over the course of four years. You're doing something wrong. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Miles Smiles wrote: |
| igorG wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Are universities a lot of work? |
More than a decade ago and for just about the same salary with higher weekly teaching hours. |
I've increased my university pay by over 500 rmb per month per year over the course of four years. You're doing something wrong. |
yep. my salary has more than doubled since my first job in this country back in 2004 (same workload). anyone who's been in the country for years and hasn't improved their employment situation is doing something (or many things) wrong. and i doubt these claims of salaries today being the same or lower than they were ten years ago can be backed up with anything that resembles evidence. |
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Salvatore
Joined: 22 May 2011
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps some people decided to take a look around?
7 years ago I was offered 5k to work 14 periods a week. Recently, I was offered 5k for 18.
In my opinion, experience counts for squat in China when applying to see something different. I guess some of the long-timers are just regular people receiving peanuts in China in the same city. Tell the truth, how many places in China have you seen? I'll bet that I've seen more.
500 x 12 = 6000 a year if you have a 12 month contract. I have yet to be offered a 12 month contract and truly doubt claims of such existing.
I probably spend about 1k a year on toilet paper wiping my ass and mouth, since most restaurants don't provide napkins.
My goal in life is to be a Listening "teacher". If anyone out there can explain to me how to "teach" Listening, I'll be eternally, gratefully dead.
"Teaching" in China is a joke.
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| i don't think its job experience that helps people get better and higher paying jobs in china, it's the experience of actually being there and being able to search for jobs that aren't widely advertised. That, and once you've been here you know the pitfalls to look out for. As has been said by a couple of people here already, if you've spent considerable time in China and are still finding jobs with the same salaries as ten years ago, or not so great conditions, you're doing something wrong. |
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Salvatore
Joined: 22 May 2011
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:19 am Post subject: |
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I guess the above means - follow the Chinese rules. If so, I'm happy to make about 2k USD less per year.
Welcome to "our" side. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: |
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amen  |
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creztor
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| and i doubt these claims of salaries today being the same or lower than they were ten years ago can be backed up with anything that resembles evidence. |
There actually is, albeit not 10 years ago. Check these links below:
http://wayback.archive.org/web/20050901000000*/http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/
That will show all the snapshots taken of eslcafe over the years. Scanning through them you can see that wages really aren't that much different. Just one example:
Hundred Positions Available Across China, 8000RMB@ Shanghai, 6800RMB@Suzhou, 6500RMB@Hefei , 5000RMB@Kaifeng and Much More. DON'T MISS! APPLY NOW!
I'll let people dig through it and decide on their own. However, my own opinion is that wages, at best, have remained the same, and if you factor inflation, then they have definitely decreased. |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Salvatore wrote: |
My goal in life is to be a Listening "teacher". If anyone out there can explain to me how to "teach" Listening, I'll be eternally, gratefully dead.
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I get the feeling it might fall on deaf ears. 
Seriously there are loads of ways to teach listening - what in particular is the issue? |
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Fable105
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Your university might also ask you to create your own course. Sometimes that means teaching a culture class. These classes can be fun and interesting. But they also require a lot of planning because you have to design the course materials, prepare classes, create a syllabus, etc. And you will probably be standing up in class and lecturing in front of 30+ students for over an hour. Students may be doing homework for other classes or sleeping the entire time. |
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