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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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It was pathetic, and an embarrassment to the 'parent' company. |
The parent company should be embarrassed for giving franchises with no quality control! (suspect we're talking about a company whose name begins with "H", .... and possibly, "H") |
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davidmsgi
Joined: 01 Feb 2011 Posts: 62 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Please don't start guessing, because in just a few guesses my school can be identified by process of elimination.
If I say you're wrong, you'll guess again until you get it right.
So I won't respond to any probes for my school's name.
Let's just say that Franchise offices can be a disaster without strong corporate oversight and constant quality control, and leave it at that.
It's not fair to the company that you identify with your 'guesses', because they appear guilty by implication if I don't respond with a denial.
Obviously, we all know the identities of the 4 -6 'chain' school operators in Mexico.
Here's my response to all 'guesses' - YES, IT'S ONE OF THEM. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 390
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Does it really matter if we know which franchise it was this time around?
Every franchise has its horror stories, and there are no lack of poorly managed schools in Queretaro.
It's no news to most of us that most language school management, foreign or national, are people who couldn't hack it in the US or other more developed markets and barely get by on the low standards and acceptance of the status quo here.
After working for several of these places, I got tired of the circus and went off on my own. My salary tripled, I got rid of the hassles and incompetence of "management," and I do what's best for my clients without trying to meet the empty requirements of a lackluster school.
Job security is much better than when I worked for schools because I've got my finger on the pulse of my clients and I know if there's going to be a change. I'll never work for a language school again, and my standards for any employment in Mexico are at a whole different level than a few years back. It really is night and day. |
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BadBeagleBad

Joined: 23 Aug 2010 Posts: 1186 Location: 24.18105,-103.25185
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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davidmsgi wrote: |
Wow, a school so well run that a waiting list was necessary for those seeking opportunities to join the school? I'm jealous!
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Yeah, but let me add that that was TWO branches of a chain that has, something like 30 branches in Mexico City alone. Those were the two everyone wanted to work at, because of management. I was fortunate to be able to work, at one time or another, at both of those branches, and when they wanted to move me to a different branch, I tendered my resignation. |
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davidmsgi
Joined: 01 Feb 2011 Posts: 62 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:17 am Post subject: |
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One of the things that amazed me was my school 'culture' where the teacher is a disposable and interchangeable resource, simply a 'spoke in the wheel of the system' - it felt like a communist political system.
I was admonished repeatedly by my management for consistent requests from my students for 'repeat' classes with me!
To my school, this was a BIG problem. They didn't want a teacher to stand out, but 'blend in', so that the students did not perceive any difference, no matter what teacher was assigned to their class. My students consistently requested repeat classes with me, and I was told that this was completely unacceptable, and that I was not doing my job properly if my students felt that their teacher was a factor in their advancement or instruction.
What ever happened to striving for excellence?
My students loved my classes and wanted more - and my management resented hearing these requests, and told me I wasn't doing my job.
It was a relief to resign - I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone!
Everything was upside down. It was George Orwell, 1984!
"Don't be too good - that's bad."
"We don't want your students to like you too much - that's not good."
This is a true story - can you believe it? |
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BadBeagleBad

Joined: 23 Aug 2010 Posts: 1186 Location: 24.18105,-103.25185
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:06 am Post subject: |
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davidmsgi wrote: |
I was admonished repeatedly by my management for consistent requests from my students for 'repeat' classes with me!
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Yeah, I actually had the same thing happen once a few years ago! I worked for an institute that had a huge contract with one company, the owner liked to switch teachers around every 3 months or so so students would be exposed to a variety of accents, which I don�t think is a bad idea. But, when several of my students asked him not to switch teachers, he was not happy. Then, when he had a couple of new students from that company start taking classes and ask for me specifically, he was again not happy. The reasons were never fully explained.
But that has got to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard of, that you did a good job so you were a bad employee?? Amazing, and not in a good way. |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 1520 Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:16 am Post subject: |
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BadBeagleBad wrote: |
davidmsgi wrote: |
I was admonished repeatedly by my management for consistent requests from my students for 'repeat' classes with me!
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Yeah, I actually had the same thing happen once a few years ago! I worked for an institute that had a huge contract with one company, the owner liked to switch teachers around every 3 months or so so students would be exposed to a variety of accents, which I don�t think is a bad idea. But, when several of my students asked him not to switch teachers, he was not happy. Then, when he had a couple of new students from that company start taking classes and ask for me specifically, he was again not happy. The reasons were never fully explained.
But that has got to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard of, that you did a good job so you were a bad employee?? Amazing, and not in a good way. |
In both cases, maybe the owners of the schools were worried that if the students liked you too much and you left the school, the students would also leave the school and study with you privately. |
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davidmsgi
Joined: 01 Feb 2011 Posts: 62 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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So, what is a teacher to do?
I had no control over any contacts, conversations, or requests being made by my students to my school's management.
What's the lesson here?
DON'T be a good teacher?
Or - mediocrity equals job security? |
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BadBeagleBad

Joined: 23 Aug 2010 Posts: 1186 Location: 24.18105,-103.25185
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: |
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Isla Guapa wrote: |
In both cases, maybe the owners of the schools were worried that if the students liked you too much and you left the school, the students would also leave the school and study with you privately. |
Yeah could be, but better to lose a few students than to lose entire classes. And, satisfied students refer other students. For years I got all my private students through referrels, and I am sure schools would get students the same way if a teacher was especially good. But you know who really suffers? The students. Sad that being mediocre is now something to strive for. |
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davidmsgi
Joined: 01 Feb 2011 Posts: 62 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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I believe that satisfied students refer other students - TO THE SCHOOL.
If I'm a popular teacher, it's a positive reflection on the school that employs me, isn't it? If students believe that I'm an excellent teacher, it becomes a credit to the school Director who hired me, doesn't it?
What do happy students tell their friends?
"I have this terrific English teacher WHO WORKS FOR school xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. If you take classes with school xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, you can get this teacher, too."
If I am generating referrals, and I work for a school, those referrals go to THE SCHOOL, don't they?
So now I have left the school due to being chastised for doing a great job, and my former students are contacting me asking for private classes. I wasn't looking to leave the school - they DROVE me out.
For the school, the situation has now become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Maybe I'm naive, but the better alternative outcome from my perspective should have been accolades from my superiors, and an increased schedule of classes as student requests are granted, and the students get more classes with their favorite teacher. The students are happy, I am happy as I get more hours, classes, and money, and the school and the Director should be thrilled - more students, more classes, more referrals, and more money - FOR THE SCHOOL.
Isn't this Business 101? |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 1520 Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe the directors of the school never took Business 101 . |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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mejms wrote: |
Does it really matter if we know which franchise it was this time around?
Every franchise has its horror stories, and there are no lack of poorly managed schools in Queretaro.
It's no news to most of us that most language school management, foreign or national, are people who couldn't hack it in the US or other more developed markets and barely get by on the low standards and acceptance of the status quo here.
After working for several of these places, I got tired of the circus and went off on my own. My salary tripled, I got rid of the hassles and incompetence of "management," and I do what's best for my clients without trying to meet the empty requirements of a lackluster school.
Job security is much better than when I worked for schools because I've got my finger on the pulse of my clients and I know if there's going to be a change. I'll never work for a language school again, and my standards for any employment in Mexico are at a whole different level than a few years back. It really is night and day. |
Where's the Like button for this?
I think you see a cycle in such chain schools where the market is saturated and competition is high. The students these chains draw don't have a lot of disposable income so all the chains keep their prices as low as they can to compete and to draw from the widest pool possible. I read somewhere years back that Interlingua in particular is spending more than a third of their overall budget on advertising alone.
Given the slim margins, they aren't putting anything into staffing beyond the bare minimum.
What mejms has done, along with a number of us here, and smaller language schools is to work a niche. Plenty of that going on in DF in the business English side - (comments, Phil?). |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 390
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Guy Courchesne wrote: |
Given the slim margins, they aren't putting anything into staffing beyond the bare minimum. |
That's a good point. These business models work on very slim margins- charge little for classes, pay teachers little, keep students coming in, have constant turnover.
There's also a larger aspect to Mexican business culture to consider. It's much easier to manage a system than to manage people. As social as Mexicans are, you'll find that in companies large and small, there's a real "I'm your patr�n attitude." Some management will lay people off when their salary gets too high, figuring that they can pay two people less than half the salary to do the job, regardless of the quality of work. There's no real loyalty in work culture here, though one could argue that there isn't much in any country now. As one friend put it, management will fire personnel at times just to keep the fear of God in them.
Being a good manager isn't easy. A lot of people in leadership roles shouldn't be in them. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 390
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, and I also want to add, that not only have these business owners never taken Business 101, a lot of them don't care that much for business. I've seen plenty of school owners who do it because there's nothing else they could even really try to do-- no other market where they could even get their foot in the door-- and so run a school more for ego and status than to run a good business. |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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I've worked on and off over the years with a an HR manager at Grupo Penafiel and I've picked his brain a lot on a number of issues in people management, hiring, and the like. In his case, quotas ans sales targets were the determining factors on hiring, firing, and raises.
There's definitely a lot to what your saying, mejms, but I also think there is a strong awareness of the value of retaining talent and developing it. Perhaps some industries value this more than others, but to use an example within our field, look at how many companies are willing to invest in English instruction for the employees. It's certainly not uniform across all industries of course. |
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