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Jbhughes
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 254
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 Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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What would be appropriate then Spiral78?
(begged the question, and I was reading - 'spect I wasn't the only one) |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Actually, while this might be entirely feasible in the Japanese market, it wouldn't hold up too well with European businesspeople (the majority of the private language school/entry level market here). Classes are usually very small, and students are used to something more like ESP - field-focused lesson plans. The grammar point could be reviewed, but it would be very unlikely that whatever point would be new to the students - meaning that it would not be 'taught.' |
I'll admit to knowing zero about the European market and style of teaching, but the OP did say this:
she asked me HOW (what methods I would use) to teach the simple present and present continous/progressive.
Doesn't sound too ESP - field-focused to me. Perhaps we just all don't know what the heck the person was asking the OP for, since we weren't there! I replied only based on what I was given.
You wrote this as a response, spiral:
Mainly, they want to hear if you can approach a grammatical point from a functional, contextualised standpoint, rather than just explaining it to the students. So, for example, you could approach I do versus I am doing with the distinction between habitual behaviour and current activity. "I ride my bike to work." (every day) and "I am studying English now." It's pretty easy to think of ways to build on this.
Why never both at the same time? Comparing and contrasting tense usage is a common way to practice tenses, and to present ones that the students aren't proficient in yet. Also, keep in mind that it's not really accurate to say we are going to 'teach' a tense as though students are going to totally get it at that time. Tense acquisition is a matter of practice.
The first paragraph doesn't seem to offer any ESP pointers, and the second paragraph doesn't agree with what you just wrote about students in Europe already knowing the basics. I'm sorry, but you lost me in what you're trying to tell the OP.
Just what concrete answer would you have given the interviewer? Maybe that would be a better way of discussing this. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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OK. Like you, I'd have clarified that they want to hear an example of how I'd approach a lesson based on present simple and continuous.
I'd also need to know something about the kinds of students the school works with. Assuming that they are the typical businesspeople at a lower/mid intermediate level (in my experience, they tend to be a bit lower level in general in Belgium and Luxembourg than in the Netherlands or Germany), I'd tell them something like:
Based on their jobs, we could begin by talking about some of the things they do at work every day, with a highlight on using the present simple to do so. I might provide some models to get them started, if needed. We might then move on to further discussion (again after a few models as needed) to whatever they are working on at this time. The analysis of tenses could also be expanded to other topics, such as holidays or other activities. We'd wrap up with a review of when each tense is used, and what is different/the same about them. I might follow up with a handout describing the tenses for their reference., and possibly giving some individual practice. In the following lesson, I might present them a text (preferably in their field) that offers them opportunities to analyse the tense use in written discourse.
| Quote: |
Doesn't sound too ESP - field-focused to me. Perhaps we just all don't know what the heck the person was asking the OP for, since we weren't there! I replied only based on what I was given.
You wrote this as a response, spiral:
Mainly, they want to hear if you can approach a grammatical point from a functional, contextualised standpoint, rather than just explaining it to the students. So, for example, you could approach I do versus I am doing with the distinction between habitual behaviour and current activity. "I ride my bike to work." (every day) and "I am studying English now." It's pretty easy to think of ways to build on this.
Why never both at the same time? Comparing and contrasting tense usage is a common way to practice tenses, and to present ones that the students aren't proficient in yet. Also, keep in mind that it's not really accurate to say we are going to 'teach' a tense as though students are going to totally get it at that time. Tense acquisition is a matter of practice.
The first paragraph doesn't seem to offer any ESP pointers, and the second paragraph doesn't agree with what you just wrote about students in Europe already knowing the basics. I'm sorry, but you lost me in what you're trying to tell the OP. |
Basically, I wasn't trying to get into a lesson plan description. I was answering the question on the level of approach/method, as I interpreted the OP to be asking at this level. Further, we now know that the OP has TEFL certification and should be entirely able to create lesson plans.
No, I wasn't trying to give ESP pointers, because, as you noted and I agree, we don't actually know what kinds of students this school specifically works with. I am only guessing what is likely based on my years of work in the region.
When I noted that tense acquisiton is a matter of practice, this is what I mean by these students already having studied grammar (in most cases) fairly extensively - whether they can use it effectively or not. We do not usually speak of 'teaching' a grammatical element: review and practice are more accurate terms for what happens in a language classroom. In the European environment, a teacher who states that he or she will 'teach' a grammar point risks sounding so overconfident as to be near-clueless about how learning takes place. This is simply a matter of semantics, though. |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I also understand the difficulty of finding work legally in this country, and am heading to Italy at the end of the month (while my passport stamp is still valid) to look for more 'under the table' positions (I speak Italian decently as well). |
And what will you do if you get an under the table position but then overrun your 90-day visa? Do a runner on the school, or just stay illegally? You run the risk of deportation, then a ban on travel back to anywhere in the Schengen area for five years, I think it is. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Deportation can be up to ten years, though I've never yet heard of the maximum penalty being imposed.
To be honest, I'm curious where the idea of trying to get illegal work is coming from (this isn't the only poster recently). I am rather wondering if some certification course is currently selling the notion as though we were back in the days before schengen, when illegal work was pretty commonly done as the penalties were near nil...... |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Dear spiral78,
Would that be "Deportation can be up to ten years . . ." or Exile/Banishment can be up to ten years?"
Picky, I know - but your wording had me imagining someone on a train/plane/bus for a decade 
Regards,
John |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dear John:
That would be hell!!
Of course you are correct: the ban on re-entering the EU can be up to ten years.
My bad. If you hadn't caught me, I'd edit the post 
Now everyone will know I misused a word (I hope my students don't find out!).
cau
spiral |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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"Everything comes to an end, only objects are left to pine in the dark."
Comrades! Ponder the wise words of Platonov... |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Sasha,
Golly - all these years I'd thought is was "Everything comes to an end, only pines are left to object in the dark."
Regards,
John |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hic! |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Seriously, Andrei Platonov, if you have not read him before, is probably the greatest Russian writer of the twentieth century. Get hold of a copy if you can of 'Soul'. Explores the limits of all a novel can be...
But what do I know? - could be the drink talking...hic! |
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jr1965
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:13 am Post subject: |
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One thing I find quite nice to do with students is to use a more �inductive/guided discovery approach� when introducing or reviewing certain language�particularly if you�re focusing on contrastive usage (e.g., present simple vs. pres continuous or simple past vs. the present perfect ). The goal is to get students to analyze the language (presented in a meaningful context, of course) and to get them to generate the rule(s) themselves or to answer some questions about the rules that you provide.
For more on this, have a look at these links:
http://www.teachingenglish.org.uk/think/knowledge-wiki/guided-discovery
http://www.impactseries.com/grammar/becoming.html (bit of a dated article by Rod Ellis but still some good ideas here)
If you can get your hands on a copy, check out Ellis�s textbook Impact Grammar (http://www.amazon.com/Impact-Grammar-Book-Audio-CD/dp/9620014286). As I recall, he uses this approach in most (if not all) of the units in the books in the series.
Sorry I don�t have more time to explain. Hopefully the ideas above will be helpful.
Good luck to you! |
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