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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| I said I did the arm wrestling at my old school. Haven't done anything at the new one. |
No justification.
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| Assaulted yes, I shouldn't have to do that. But |
No, stop right there. No "but" after you admit you shouldn't.
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| But it is the only way to... |
Aren't you the least aware that it is not your place? You and your employer can be liable for damages if you do something wrong, or if the parents call you on it. Leave discipline to the school, even if they do nothing.
Don't like it? Tough.
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| I don't like the way they all turn a blind eye to outright violence, if I had the power, I wouldn't let him in the classroom. |
It's not your place to judge or act. You don't have the power.
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| And come on, dispatch companies don't do anything. you think they would actually stand up and do something for you? You're nuts. |
No, I never said that. Informing your employer protects you and them, no matter how much you dislike the situation you're in.
And, I know there aren't that many jobs out there. Network. Look around. Change cities. You have options other than physically assaulting students and doing what is not your responsibility to do.
If you can't accept that, perhaps it's time to consider a new line of work or a new country. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I said I did the arm wrestling at my old school. Haven't done anything at the new one. |
No justification.
| Quote: |
| Assaulted yes, I shouldn't have to do that. But |
No, stop right there. No "but" after you admit you shouldn't.
| Quote: |
| But it is the only way to... |
Aren't you the least aware that it is not your place? You and your employer can be liable for damages if you do something wrong, or if the parents call you on it. Leave discipline to the school, even if they do nothing.
Don't like it? Tough.
| Quote: |
| I don't like the way they all turn a blind eye to outright violence, if I had the power, I wouldn't let him in the classroom. |
It's not your place to judge or act. You don't have the power.
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| And come on, dispatch companies don't do anything. you think they would actually stand up and do something for you? You're nuts. |
No, I never said that. Informing your employer protects you and them, no matter how much you dislike the situation you're in.
And, I know there aren't that many jobs out there. Network. Look around. Change cities. You have options other than physically assaulting students and doing what is not your responsibility to do.
If you can't accept that, perhaps it's time to consider a new line of work or a new country. |
It was my first day of teaching, the 40mins of training that I had, didn't cover much outside of, 'smile, do what your JTE asks of you, and be genki'. Well I did what my JTE asked me to do.
I am out of here in March, and will be more than happy to not have to 'teach' Engrish here anymore.
As for the kid. I will not comprimise my beliefs, if someone is doing another serious harm while I am in a situation like this, of course I will |
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David W
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
As for the kid. I will not comprimise my beliefs, if someone is doing another serious harm while I am in a situation like this, of course I will |
Don't let Glenski put you on the defensive, you did the right thing, same as I would have done. Boys sometimes need to be reminded, by men, of the physical order of things. You did that. Thumbs up. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:21 am Post subject: |
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David,
I beg to differ. What he did was technically illegal, and it wasn't even within the bounds of his job. Yes, it may have seemed like the "right thing to do", but it was wrong. |
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David W
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
David,
I beg to differ. What he did was technically illegal, and it wasn't even within the bounds of his job. Yes, it may have seemed like the "right thing to do", but it was wrong. |
We'll have to agree to disagree then. Boys will push until they find their boundaries and for some it is a physical boundary. As a teacher you must absolutely be prepared to stand your ground if necessary, which I believe is what the OP did. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:03 am Post subject: |
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When one is in the right, I agree with you. However, he is not a teacher, but a mere assistant hired by an outside agency. He has little to no authority or responsibility in the school where he is assigned.
Agree to disagree, but people must be fully cognizant about what the situation is here. I get the feeling that you and he are projecting a western view on things here (I've known Japanese teachers who got fired for doing what he did), plus a misplaced sense of teaching role, as I have repeatedly tried to explain. |
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David W
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
When one is in the right, I agree with you. However, he is not a teacher, but a mere assistant hired by an outside agency. He has little to no authority or responsibility in the school where he is assigned.
Agree to disagree, but people must be fully cognizant about what the situation is here. I get the feeling that you and he are projecting a western view on things here (I've known Japanese teachers who got fired for doing what he did), plus a misplaced sense of teaching role, as I have repeatedly tried to explain. |
The OP didn't get sacked as far as I can see. I wouldn't go belting kids left, right and centre but in the right time and place a physical presence is not unwarranted. Sounds to me like the OP wants to do his job to the best of his ability and seems to me he did that. My son has copped a thick ear from his club teacher, was well deserved, didn't hurt him and adequately got the coach's point across. I didn't get my knickers in a twist about it.
I must say too that I've seen teachers bully students and on one particualarly memorable occassion I've seen a student stand up to the bullying. Must admit I kind of admired that student, certainly stopped the bullying even though I thought I was going to cop one when I stepped between them. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| David W wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
As for the kid. I will not comprimise my beliefs, if someone is doing another serious harm while I am in a situation like this, of course I will |
Don't let Glenski put you on the defensive, you did the right thing, same as I would have done. Boys sometimes need to be reminded, by men, of the physical order of things. You did that. Thumbs up. |
Thank you, I appreciate that. |
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David W
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 457
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| David W wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
As for the kid. I will not comprimise my beliefs, if someone is doing another serious harm while I am in a situation like this, of course I will |
Don't let Glenski put you on the defensive, you did the right thing, same as I would have done. Boys sometimes need to be reminded, by men, of the physical order of things. You did that. Thumbs up. |
Thank you, I appreciate that. |
No worries mate, old Glenski pretty much knows how it goes but sometimes when the talking don't work no more then you rxk22, you have got to say this train is stopping at this station and will not recommence until I'm satisfied it's gonna be a smooth ride. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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While we are on the subject of physical contact with students, I have been having some problems with one of my special needs students. He comes to classes when and if he wants to and does what he wants when he wants. I frequently see 3-4 JTs surrounding him and gently nudging him back towards the classroom. He screams a lot and is sometimes violent with the other teachers.
Recently, he has started "interacting" with me. (He ignored me for the first 3 months on the job.) Now he likes to push or pull me out of the classroom. Last week, while he was pulling me down the hall (and I was resisting while trying not to hurt him) and few boys tried to intervene on my behalf. I politely asked them to stop and said I would take care of it.
Actually I had to wait for the real teacher to show up and talk him down. He finally let go of my arm and "let" me enter the classroom. During the class, he tried to wrap an electrical cord around my neck and other such things.
Basically, the Japanese teachers do nothing but talk to him. "Please stop", "Let's play bingo", etc. Not sure what more I can do. Oh, I just sent an email to my supervisor at the dispatch company as well. No response yet. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| David W wrote: |
| The OP didn't get sacked as far as I can see. |
Did I say that? No. Please read more carefully. What I said was that there is such a potential. If he is a dispatch teacher, he also runs the risk of jeopardizing the company's contract with the school.
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| I wouldn't go belting kids left, right and centre but in the right time and place a physical presence is not unwarranted. |
By the proper teacher, yes. By an ALT, no.
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| My son has copped a thick ear from his club teacher, was well deserved, didn't hurt him and adequately got the coach's point across. I didn't get my knickers in a twist about it. |
Is your son Japanese? Was the coach a foreigner? Look, sports coaches get away with swats and sometimes more (one got in the news about it, though). Sports activities are a far cry from wrestling with a kid inside the classroom.
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| I must say too that I've seen teachers bully students and on one particualarly memorable occassion I've seen a student stand up to the bullying. Must admit I kind of admired that student, certainly stopped the bullying even though I thought I was going to cop one when I stepped between them. |
Why are you even bringing up bullying by teachers when that is clearly not even the case here?
Disregard what I say, if you like, but it really sounds like people who are defending this ALT do not understand the Japanese system. Beware the risks. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Well had one kid almost blind(in one eye) another kid today at school. Kid took sewing needles and put them in pointy side out into the pin cushion. He then hit the other kid in the face with it. Barely missed his eye. |
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micronian
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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I once gave a student a chokehold for throwing an eraser at my head. I told him never to do it again--and he never did. Afterwards I mentioned it to my JTE, who was actually happy that someone put the student in his place.
One thing that I noticed during my 3 years in Japan is that the students go through a lot of physical abuse. They have to do marathons in the middle of summer/winter, they ride their bikes for miles through all the elements, and they do all sorts of training in very hot weather--in which many get injured.
With the teachers, I've seen plenty of fighting, punching, and pushing as the method of discipline. The girls generally get shouted at for 5-10 minutes until they break down and cry. In the end, this is the kind of behaviour that students understand. I really believe that if you introduce other cultural norms, from your part of the world, they'll just get more confused.
The Japanese are generally not confrontational. I don't really think they'll be quick to pull the trigger and start calling out the law if an ALT does something disciplinary against a student--at least not the first time. As long as the teachers and the VP know that you're not the type of person to get physical, and that you immediately talk to someone you trust about YOUR OWN difficulties (i.e. not criticizing the school or teachers, even if that is the real problem), at least you're able to cover your bases. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| David W wrote: |
| Don't let Glenski put you on the defensive, you did the right thing, same as I would have done. Boys sometimes need to be reminded, by men, of the physical order of things. You did that. Thumbs up. |
Ug the Cave Man agree. Ug prove power! Ug manly man. Ug incapable of doing anything else because Ug prove to boy Power and Natural Order of things, just like woman should be in kitchen. 
(Do any of you need to be told how to read that?)
I would actually fall somewhere in between Glenski and you. The idea that there is a natural/physical order is laughable. We're not living in the 1930's. There's no need to prove anything. Getting physical with a student in the manner described, even in providing safety to another student, is simply a gross failure on the part of the teacher. There are ways to do it, do it safely, and do it within the bounds of the law.
Conversely, ALT's simply aren't taught what those ways are so few people can blame the ALT for doing nothing, but that doesn't hold if they do do something & screw it up. That is very much the ALT's judgement call. I would side with glenski in so far as if a person *doesn't* know how to deal with it then they shouldn't be poking their oar in or slapping students about. To say they should be doing so, without any skills or abilities in that area, is even worse than staying right out.
Last edited by G Cthulhu on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Would if I could, but there aren't too many jobs out there right this sec. |
So you did something that can get you fired and held criminally liable?!
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Assaulted yes, I shouldn't have to do that. But it is the only way to keep the kid from assaulting the other kids.
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No, it isn't. All you're doing here is demonstrating that you don't know much about teaching.
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I am all for rough housing, but this kid is a psycho, and his intent is to hurt others. He soccer kicked a girl, who was sitting on the floor, during a game. He elbowed another kid in the head. Threw something in another kid's eye.
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And if you knew much about Japan and Japanese school groups, you'd know that come PE time or after school, he's going to get the living crap kicked out of him by a group of other kids. If the kids don't do it then the PE teachers will make his life hell for them. Again, this is all basic interaction and group dynamic stuff that if you knew what you were doing in a Japanese context you would understand and work within.
As opposed to assaulting minors.
As someone else said, shouting at students is simply facile. granted, it satisfying at times  but it doesn't achieve any medium or long term benefits.
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I don't like the way they all turn a blind eye to outright violence, if I had the power, I wouldn't let him in the classroom.
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And others have said, that's the point: you *don't* have the power. You are not licensed, you are not qualified, and you aren't even capable of working within the dynamic to get the problem solved. But hey, you sure did show him that being bigger and stronger lets you beat up the smaller people! Way to go, champ!
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The ES class is pretty bad, but most of the kids I can get them to either be quiet, or somehow participate. It is the one kid, who is borderline criminal, that I worry about.
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Yeah, because elementary children are so difficult to manage.
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And come on, dispatch companies don't do anything. you think they would actually stand up and do something for you? You're nuts.
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It's not their job to do anything. Unlike you, they know that. They also know not to try and defend the indefensible.
Personally, I'm surprised you still have a job. You shouldn't. |
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