Job Discussion Forums

[igorG]

[Lobster]

Believe me, we know when we're reading crap. His point is that blacklists may not be, for the reasons clearly stated, a reliable way to evaluate a school in the absence of corroborating testimonials or administrative follow-ups.

RED

[igorG]

Yes, we know when we are reading cr*p. Believe us, we understand his point. While it is true that any evaluation should be corroborated and followed up on, it is uneasy to state exact events, names etc on line for varieties of reasons. Ignoring this fact can come as costly as ingoring such warnings. Haven't websites had issues with employers and/or local authorities before? Haven't FTs had issues with websites and/or prospective employers before? And, haven't many FTs traveled to destinations they wish they would never have traveled to?

My observation is that a FT is an intellectual that can evaluate much better than a local, often poorly qualified, inexperienced and unknowledgable in the field employer can. The absence of corroborating testimonials, administrative follow-ups, or any logic explanations are often quite evident from our local employers, aren't they?

[wangdaning]

A blacklist would never work for a variety of reasons. An analogy would be a business person who decided to blacklist others every time a contract or negotiation did not work out. Eventually this person would find themself out of business.

The only way a credible blacklist could be made is if people used real, verifiable names. Otherwise, it could be just one person. One person complaining about a school is not enough, but if the majority of employees complain then you probably want to avoid it. However, now the real name is out and they are complaining. If potential schools were to know the person would complain and blacklist every time something went wrong, nobody would hire them. Same happens in the US. If you say bad things about your previous employer in an interview you are unlikely to get the job.

What we get on the net now is a bunch of people whining. Maybe a website with a list of legal actions taken against schools would be helpful. At least it would be verifiable. We can read a lot of things on the internet, but at the end of the day it is the potential employer who you actually talk to. Reading them is your best bet, internet rants might be helpful, but rarely are they truthful with the full story. Your deal with the school is your deal with them (not that of the guy ranting). If you could find evidence that the school had been proven guilty of violating the law, well that's another story.

[igorG]

I somewhat agree with the post above, however, lame generalizing and degrading FTs complaints to "whining" are poor attempts to disencourage them from further sharing their experiences on.

Further more,

[mike w]

[LongShiKong]

The problem is wording--perhaps 'blacklist' is the wrong term. As with anything, what appalls some, may appeal to others. What's needed is what exists elsewhere in education.

Int'l School Review for example, lists schools by country. Reviews consist of a 1-10 rating of the following along with comments:
[list=]Academic integrity of school (10 is top score)
Effectiveness of administration
Academic and disciplinary support provided
Director's involvement in academics
Fair and equitable treatment by board and director
School has adequate educational materials on hand
Attitude of local community towards foreigners
Cost of living in relation to salary (10= most favorable)
Satisfaction with housing
Community offers a variety of activities
Availability and quality of local health care
Assistance with visas, shipping and air travel
Extra curricular load is reasonable
Security / personal safety (10 = very safe in and out of school) [/list]

Although reviews are submitted anonymously, I doubt many are falsified.
The $30 reg fee was well spent as numerous reviews of Yucheng Int'l convinced me that despite it's connection with a Canadian university's B.Ed program, there was very little academic integrity. PM me if you're interested in a review of one of the 40+ Int'l Schools in China.

By the way, years back the private franchise school I worked for was exchanging names of 'blacklisted' teachers with other franchise schools--teachers who were dangerous or were seriously drug/alcohol dependent.

I was surprised to find myself 'blacklisted' by this same franchise school earlier this year for nothing more than leaving 2 weeks prior to contract expiry a year ago--and this was after submitting notice 6 wks in advance as per contract. They immediately terminated me but were happy to provide glowing recommendation letters.

[Lobster]

Unfortunately, it is sometimes the borderline psychopathic FTs who fly from one TEFL site to another posting, often for years, about how they were wronged by a school. Because of their mental state, they are unable to evaluate their own behaviour or performance and how their own actions led to their dismissal. The last two FTs who were fired by my company are perfect examples.

We all know that there are truly terrible schools and companies out there. FTs are cheated of wages, denied benefits, have hours added without notice or compensation, and given filthy accommodations. These are just grievances. The FTs who grind their axes because they contributed to their own dismissal reduces the impact of those posts that carry the weight of true justification.

Lately, on this very board, I have seen examples of posts complaining about schools. One was a complaint about a school based on the poster's experience with a completely different outfit because the directors had similar names. On another thread we have someone telling us he doesn't mind breaking the school's regulations as it suits him because his actions are not illegal.

As long as blacklist sites allow the unmoderated and uncorroborated postings of the mentally unstable, un-cooperative, unprofessional and irresponsible, those sites will continue to be sources of unreliable information.

RED

[igorG]

[igorG]

[LongShiKong]

As I've said, and it seems we all confer on, the problem is the terminology. The indiscriminate use of terms such as WARNING, SCAM ALERT and BLACKLIST only appeals to axe grinders. You won't find those on Int'l School Review. You just scroll down to find / post anonymous reviews of a particular school. Any excessively negative, positive (or fabricated) reviews tend to get balanced by current or past staff and as the disclaimer states, the writer's 'voice' usually underscores the hyperbole.

Here's a sample of several reviews of a school on that site to give you an idea of what I'm referring to:
http://internationalschoolsreview.com/nonmembers/intschoolazerbaijan.htm

[LongShiKong]

I've added a poll partly in response to this thread and partly in response to one started by Dave Sperling himself on the General Discussions forum . If enough forum members express interest, perhaps we can get Dave to add a School Review section:

Dear Dave: RE: Resolve Disputes Instead of Bashing Schools!
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=92743&start=0

Cast your vote!

[Miles Smiles]

Some interesting sites that discuss various schools:

http://www.chinaschoolreview.com/

http://www.chinese-tools.com/forum

http://china.eslteachercafe.com/

http://www.eslbase.com/forum/

http://www.rightatchina.com/

These seem to be pretty balanced reports of what teachers experienced, and hardly the work of madmen.

[big_big_bang_theory_fan]

[Miles Smiles]